ATP practical
12-31-2013, 08:25 AM
#111
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 48
Originally Posted by duece12345
Do not go to allatps in lawrenceville ga. Once he found out I was mil, the dude became a complete ass. I passed, but he made it the worst experience of my life. Actually it was not the schools fault, but it was th examiner they use
Good luck to all in the process and getting hired.
12-31-2013, 09:00 AM
#112
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,434
Originally Posted by Albief15
I know what you are trying to say, but the globe is scattered with wreckage of pilots who got one too many second chances. There is a fine line between keeping a realistic lens, and passing a problem child down the road. You may say its "just a formality" but at some point somebody has to put their name on the line. We don't want an over-zealous hall monitor type, but I also am sympathetic to the guy who does not want to sign off someone who has blundered through a 2.5 hour checkout, cannot program the GPS, gets 10 knots slow on a SE approach but says "hey--when it counts I know I can get it done..."
If you were a military SEFE, you the guys and gals you signed off probably flew on your wing in your squadron or shared a cockpit with you at some point. These guys at the ATP mills have never seen you, and likely won't see you again. They have one ticket, and everyone they sign off can put that ticket in jeopardy. I don't mean to make too much of this checkout--just pointing out there is risk to both parties with these checkrides.
And in aviation, as in life, there are times you have to get it right the first time. Its a tough business. That's what makes it so different from so many other fields...
If you were a military SEFE, you the guys and gals you signed off probably flew on your wing in your squadron or shared a cockpit with you at some point. These guys at the ATP mills have never seen you, and likely won't see you again. They have one ticket, and everyone they sign off can put that ticket in jeopardy. I don't mean to make too much of this checkout--just pointing out there is risk to both parties with these checkrides.
And in aviation, as in life, there are times you have to get it right the first time. Its a tough business. That's what makes it so different from so many other fields...
When you take a mil guy and stick them in a light civil cockpit, they are instantly behind the power curve. It is just two completely different aircraft types. The "weekend ATP" is designed to get guys their license, not a checkride failure and a huge bill. All I am saying is that some examiners seem to have a tough time distinguishing between aircraft unfamiliarity and genuine bad airmanship.
10 knots slow on final? That is a no brainier. That is just a failure to aviate.
I agree...sometimes a bad day is just a bad day. When I have had those occurrences, they have been great personal growing experiences.
12-31-2013, 09:10 AM
#113
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
When I took the checkride for my current job I joked that I wish I could have put the evaluator in the backseat of the plane I was currently flying and do the check instead of an airplane that I had never even set in the cockpit off, much less unfamiliar with the avionics, and shooting approaches that I had never used or hadn't used in nearly 20 years! That is some added pressure.
The ramifications of failing the ATP checkride after a quickie course, and the ripples it could cause on down the line of a future career are serious. It would like taking that airline guy who wants to be a military pilot, putting him through the ground school and sim for two days and then having them perform to a high set of standards for a job in that next 20 years. That would be viewed as unfair and a foolish way of evaluating potential pilots.
The ramifications of failing the ATP checkride after a quickie course, and the ripples it could cause on down the line of a future career are serious. It would like taking that airline guy who wants to be a military pilot, putting him through the ground school and sim for two days and then having them perform to a high set of standards for a job in that next 20 years. That would be viewed as unfair and a foolish way of evaluating potential pilots.
12-31-2013, 09:33 AM
#114
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: BE350 PIC
Posts: 624
Originally Posted by e6bpilot
When you take a mil guy and stick them in a light civil cockpit, they are instantly behind the power curve. It is just two completely different aircraft types. The "weekend ATP" is designed to get guys their license, not a checkride failure and a huge bill. All I am saying is that some examiners seem to have a tough time distinguishing between aircraft unfamiliarity and genuine bad airmanship.
Going from a steam gauge E-2 to a glass cockpit Seminole after a year plus out of the cockpit was a bit much.
If I could go back in time, I would have gone to Higher Power for a 737 Type + ATP, or spent the extra coin and done it in a King Air.
12-31-2013, 01:10 PM
#115
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 2,889
FWIW, I don't think busting an ATP on a weekend course will adversely impact your airline dreams all that much.
You take a Tac Air guy, who has 10, 12, or 20 years of a no hiccups. Then he dingles this check and does a re-do…
What is the biggest concern an airline has about a guy like that? That he can't fly, or that he shows up in class thinking "oh yeah…how hard can it be to fly cross country all the time, especially as as co-pilot…?" Guys who have busted the ATP understand the value of a little humility.
As a more experienced airline pilot now, I understand that learning the 121 (soon 117) way isn't easier, or harder, but it is "different". Airlines need guys with pliant enough attitudes to com in and adapt effectively. Having had their hand caught in a car door on an ATP checkout probably just says "yeah…this guy learned he wasn't ALL THAT, and that whatever you decide to learn to fly you better take it serious…."
I'm not an airline recruiter, but I've had a healthy handful of clients who have had a bad day at All ATPS or or similar places. It didn't' seem to stop them from getting the call, or the job. It sucks to have to say "…well…yes…I HAVE busted an FAA check ride…" instead of "…nope!…" but I don't think its a career killer. Its just a little bit of humble pie you get to eat in front of your interviewers...
You take a Tac Air guy, who has 10, 12, or 20 years of a no hiccups. Then he dingles this check and does a re-do…
What is the biggest concern an airline has about a guy like that? That he can't fly, or that he shows up in class thinking "oh yeah…how hard can it be to fly cross country all the time, especially as as co-pilot…?" Guys who have busted the ATP understand the value of a little humility.
As a more experienced airline pilot now, I understand that learning the 121 (soon 117) way isn't easier, or harder, but it is "different". Airlines need guys with pliant enough attitudes to com in and adapt effectively. Having had their hand caught in a car door on an ATP checkout probably just says "yeah…this guy learned he wasn't ALL THAT, and that whatever you decide to learn to fly you better take it serious…."
I'm not an airline recruiter, but I've had a healthy handful of clients who have had a bad day at All ATPS or or similar places. It didn't' seem to stop them from getting the call, or the job. It sucks to have to say "…well…yes…I HAVE busted an FAA check ride…" instead of "…nope!…" but I don't think its a career killer. Its just a little bit of humble pie you get to eat in front of your interviewers...
12-31-2013, 01:25 PM
#116
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: BE350 PIC
Posts: 624
Now the biggest thing to deal with is I had to burn all my "emergency" vacation for that weekend (turned into 9 days for a 3 day course due to aircraft and DPE availability) and now I'm stuck on the road.
Current employer makes it about impossible to get time off with less than six months notice, because they are woefully understaffed, because guys leave, because it takes six months to take a day off.
I've worked 337 days this year. I'm currently on day 46 without a day off. If I hadn't taken the short notice vacation to go to AATPs, I'd be somewhere north of 100 days without a day off.
Current employer makes it about impossible to get time off with less than six months notice, because they are woefully understaffed, because guys leave, because it takes six months to take a day off.
I've worked 337 days this year. I'm currently on day 46 without a day off. If I hadn't taken the short notice vacation to go to AATPs, I'd be somewhere north of 100 days without a day off.
01-14-2014, 06:27 AM
#119
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Posts: 256
Update --
Accessible Aviation, Columbus MS
I was scheduled to go this weekend, but Carl mis-managed the scheduling process with his examiner -- it seems like his examiner can only do checkrides on the weekday and NOT on weekends (generally). He was apologetic. I gave 3 months notice, and emailed him about 6-9 times confirming itinerary....just found out this morning that I'm a "no-go".
I don't know about the flying aspect or his product in general, but this is making me look elsewhere. If you plan on using AA, then you'll need to continually hound him confirming everything again and again....
Accessible Aviation, Columbus MS
I was scheduled to go this weekend, but Carl mis-managed the scheduling process with his examiner -- it seems like his examiner can only do checkrides on the weekday and NOT on weekends (generally). He was apologetic. I gave 3 months notice, and emailed him about 6-9 times confirming itinerary....just found out this morning that I'm a "no-go".
I don't know about the flying aspect or his product in general, but this is making me look elsewhere. If you plan on using AA, then you'll need to continually hound him confirming everything again and again....
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