papyco

In my experience, not a single Legacy airline hiring manager (HR or pilot) ever mentioned checking a "121 box". Actually, this website is the only place I have ever heard of this 121 box being mentioned as being important for a military guy to fill. I know numerous military pilots who have recently left active duty and are now flying for a major (UAL, FedEx, Alaska) or are in the interview process (AA, DAL). Not a single one of them has ever flown for a regional.

The only reason a Mil guy should need to work for a regional is if he/she can't get a Reserve flying gig. Specifically talking to the UAL, AA and FedEx hiring folks, they stated that they did not care if a Mil guy staid current flying a F-18 or a C-172. Just fly something to maintain currency. Now, if you have the option of maintaining currency in the Reserves, I highly recommend doing that vice working for a regional due to the pay and quality of life.

KC10 FATboy

I agree and disagree with your post.

For the military pilots who have good connections and/or who have solid flying experience and currency, they can go straight to the majors. But this is not a guarantee especially during times when airlines can be picky and choosy with their hiring selections.

I know several former military pilots at lower caliber (is that a nice way of saying it?) airlines who are now trying to upgrade to the DALs, UALs, SWAs, and FDXs. They have all of their former mil experience with a few thousand PART121 hours and connections.

The average military pilot may have to wait a bit longer for the pool of extremely qualified pilots to be drained first. FDX was hiring astronauts and people with lots of flying hours because they could. The average mil pilot wasn't even on their radar.

I know three recently separated military heavy drivers with about 3000 hours each. They've not been called by any majors yet. They all were instructors and evaluators. I suspect their flying hours are a bit too low right now.

T45Heinous

Update,
Thanks to many of you for your posts and opinions. I did the mil comp and I now have in hand my CFII for SEL. I was a NATOPS evaluator in the E-2, but since I wasn't a designated instructor pilot they wouldn't sign off on the multi-engine for the CFII (I do have it on my commercial ticket). So...afterwords I talk to the chief pilot at the flight school where I took my test and he said I might get hired, but that I first would have to spend 10 hours in the air learning how to instruct and another 10 hours of ground school to get a handle on teaching "civilian". Of course that would all be at the rate of $50/hour.....hhmmmm I'm not trying to brag but I have 7 years experience instructing mil pilots and over 3k hours total (including about 100 hours of civilian multi-time)...I would think that a few familiarization hops and an hour or two in a ground school gouge session would be sufficient....should I keep "shopping" around for another CFI gig, or should I plunk down the cash and the 20 hours to get "current" as a C-172 instructor with this school?
As a side note, I am studying now for the ATP, does anyone know a "gouge" ATP evaluator in the SOCAL area?
Thanks again and remember, "pickle...pause...pull"!!

John Carr

Couple things;

1) The obvious and most prevelant, the school has to make money, EVEN ON YOU.

2) It can have to do with insurance cost/liabilty that the place has. YEAH,
I KNOW, IT SUCKS. But don't ever be under the impression that because you flew a f-teen/C-one super heavy mega stealth hawk D model that you're "good to go". Chances are high that if a pure civilan showed up to the school with all their ratings and CFMEII they'd have to do it as well.

The concept can also apply to corporate operators as well. If the guy doesn't have tie in the exact type or an aircraft with a "similar size/footprint" it can be a show stopper.

T45Heinous

John,
I definitely didn't want to give the impression that I am better than a civilian with similar experience, because I'm not...I just don't know what to expect when it comes to such things as trying to get a entry level instructing job. Thanks for your post!

John Carr

And I wasn't implying that you thought you were. However, as you transition to the civ side of flying, there'll be a whole slew of things that weren't expected.

Now, in regards to the second to last statement. You don't know what to expect. Fair enough. Have you taught ANY civilian pilots whether it be ppl through a multi-comm/II course with the FAA PTS being the evaluation standard?

Hence part of the reason the guy wants a certain amount of time before he sets you loose.

T45Heinous

Have you taught ANY civilian pilots whether it be ppl through a multi-comm/II course with the FAA PTS being the evaluation standard?

Hence part of the reason the guy wants a certain amount of time before he sets you loose.[/QUOTE]

No I haven't taught a single civilian, but I HAVE taught hundreds of USN/USMC/Allied students and I am familiar with standards of training and expectations. I guess I felt that given my background, a few hours would all that would be needed, not 10 in the air and 10 on the ground. But again like has been stated by both of us...at this point, I don't know what I don't know.

John Carr

Please don't take what I'm saying as rude, that's NOT my intent.

But teaching in the civ world is different than the military. It's not any more difficult, contrary. However, the students you're used to teaching are for the most part, the SAME.

They all conformed to a specific standard, singular purpose, singular goal, singular mission. They were the almost cliche "known quantity". You know pretty much EXACTLY how to transmit to them and they EXACTLY how to receive and whats expected.

Civ, not so much. You may have a retired doctor come in that's got more brains than sense that just bought a (insert expensive plane here) and wants you to teach him how to fly it. Your next student may be young guy, hard charger, a sponge capable of learning things quickly, your next student might be an Asian who's here SIMPLY to get their ratings so they can go back home and fly a 747/777, have fun with that one.

Like I said, it's NOT harder, it's just different, and could easily be labeled as backwards. Which is ACTUALLY the challenge. MOST pilots are used to increasing challenges and increasing skill levels and tasks and embrace it. The ones facing a civilian CFI are just different.

Meh, not like it matters, epic thread drift. Just do whatever you can to stay current. Come late spring/early summer the filters/restrictions are going to loosen. The mega-competitive stack that exists right now will start to thin, etc.

rickair7777

Unless you did multiple instructor ratings at a school, you will still normally have to do some standardization training as a new-hire CFI. Only exception might be a "school" which has no standards, these are essentially clearinghouses for freelance instructors.

But for a mil guy without extensive part 91 GA experience, you will definitely need to get up to speed on civilian light piston flying and instructing and honestly ten hours doesn't sound unreasonable. You'll know what I mean after you get into a bit. Light piston ASEL don't go fast at all...just barely fast enough to kill you.

Now as to whether you actually need to pay for said standardization, well that's probably a function of market forces. I don't recall paying at the schools I worked at. Maybe you should shop around a bit...there should be a CFI shortage soon.

E2CMaster

Heinous,

Agree with the light civil single/twin being a totally different animal. 10 hours might not be too bad. I've got 6 hours in the Seminole and that wasn't really enough to get totally comfortable after 2 years out of the cockpit. As much as we wished the Hummer had more power, it is grossly overpowered vs any civil light twin. Biggest things I've noticed getting back into flying bugsmashers, is I have a lot less power to get me out of trouble with.