USMCFLYR

I remember those times well since I was at the beginning of those times. The Marines had made earlier changes so didn't have the same problems, but the Navy was sending people to other duties not involving flying for lack of spaces further through the training pipelines (Fuels Officer on the USS Iwo Jima was always the joke - or was it??? )

Yeah - I hear you about this. The RP that was washed out of the RAG (or FRS for the *newer* guys/gals ) was a Marine that I had to put the fork into at the squadron level at least - of course it had to go on further up the chain for the final say, but the Marine leadership seemed to listen to the endorsements more so than the Navy leadership at the time.

YIKES! I feel for this guy since I did the same thing on an early T-2C/Intermediate Strike sortie too. Luckily, it was the final 2 laps around the pattern at the end of the flight, so by the time my mask started shorting out it was time to land in any case. I had a good time cleaning out the O2 hose with the PRs watching and laughing though!

Vito

Crewdawg,
Here's a listing of my class (87-04) and a few classes prior to and after mine.
Class. Entered. Attrition. Graduated
87-03. 61. 43%. 35
87-04. 52. 44%. 29
87-05. 48. 46%. 26
87-06. 61. 28%. 44
This was at Columbus AFB. Spanning a timeframe from Feb 1986 to June 1987
The numbers are slightly skewed because it doesn't account for students who washed back from another class, for Example we had 4 wash backs that graduated with my class so we actually graduated 25 out of the original 52. I know other classes had similar wash backs. The 87-06 class was an Academy class so that may explain their better performance, (Or the IP's put their hammers back in the closet for them)

2loud

When I went through in the mid 90s, I can't remember exactly how many were in my class but let's just say that there were waaaaay more IPs than students (both in 37s and 38s). FAIPs were on their 2nd tour in a row (yeah, going on 6 years!). Morale was at an all time low, both IPs and student ranks. Back stabbing was the name of the game and IPs were literally crawling over each other to fly with students. Washout was the theme and stress was our meal. Pilot production was at 25% of the norm, so this "old" man was smoking something good and blowing smoke up your part of the body where the sun doesn't shine.
The reason why there aren't a whole lot of washouts as there used to is: 1) T-6s. Having the EFIS and glass cockpit makes everything easier. The scan is made simpler and big improvements on SA. The T-6 sim is also a huge improvement which keeps the cost down and enhances the learning experience. The saying was, the T-6 is easy to grasp but difficult to master while the T-37 was hard to grasp initially but easy to master. 2) Dual track. The "universal pilot" mentality disappeared since not everyone had to fly the T-38. Lets face it, very few people wash out of T-1s, if any from what I've seen.

MikeF16

Ok, I deleted as much chaff as possible without intentionally changing the meaning of the people I quoted. Since the forum has spoken and I was not clear; I will own that and be as concise as possible with an explanation prior to each quote.

First our OP who wants help with a reasonable request from what everybody assumes to be an American UPT washout.

Wait, not an American? So a foreign SP has washed out for reasons unknown post instrument phase and now wants a ticket in the US.

I ask why he washed out, *crickets*.

No reply. I may not have used PC-speak, but anybody who has spent time as a white jet instructor knows there are 2 syllabi (official) and 2 sets of standards (unofficial). I did 5 years of white jets, 3 years at Luke, and 2 years in the UAE instructing their B-course (instructing in the UAE was a very different animal, I only mention this to show I have fairly extensive experience with international students), I never had any direct contact with or know 1st hand of an international student who washed out for poor flying skills. I've flown with plenty of international students who were far worse than the worst US washout I ever flew with, and every foreign student graduated. The OP asked for advice, this is mine. Don't turn into a smoking hole, go do something else.

Huggy starts talking about US pilots. This has nothing to do with the OP. How many white jet instructors washed out a foreign student who arrived with thousands of civilian hours, or for that matter ever even saw one. No, the OP was likely not a regional pilot coming to UPT, he was probably a raw recruit with no proven credentials. Nowhere do I say or imply that if "you can't fly in the military environment you can't fly at all" as Huggy suggests. That's called a strawman argument, it isn't an honest debating principle. He made an inflammatory statement and then attributes it to me when I never said or implied it.

I point out Huggy's mistake

Huggy replies as if I told the OP to kiss off and go ask his squadron mates. Where did I say that? Where was I rude? The only place where I was sarcastic was when I exaggerated about how many arab and Nigerian graduates turned into smoking holes -- not directed at the OP. News you don't want to hear is not the same as being rude. I gave correct advice (assuming he washed out for flying) which somehow turns into a personal attack on me. If I read Huggy's posts correctly, I have no respect for my civilian counterparts without military experience, I have limited perspective, and I'm rude. Yeah, to the post below I'm going to have a rude reply.

WARich

Talk about thread drift......

galaxy flyer

My class at Columbus (77-05) started with 30, graduated every single one of that 30 a year later. At that time, it was a first. Not even one washed back into our class. We had enough strong studs to carry the few weaker ones along and cooperated intensely everyday. Even cleaning rooms.

GF

HuggyU2

Bravo.
Feel better?

Hacker15e

These are the AF's numbers through the 90s:

Vito

MikeF16,
Hard to believe that you never saw a foreign Stud wash out but I certainly don't doubt you. Reminds me of a funny story, my IP was debriefing me after a sortie and he see one of our Kuwaiti's sitting at a desk in the crew room reading something other than a T-37 related pub. He tells me that the kid was DNIF for months and only flew twice ( we were about one third of the way through Tweets at the time). He says to me, "Watch this," he then asks our DNIF friend,
"Lt Al-Immaz what do you think of the program so far?" The Kid looks at him with a big smile and gives him a thumbs up and says in broken English,
" Piece of Cake"
He washed out along with another Kuwaiti Stud. Heard he ended up trying to fly helicopters

Albief15

I saw a couple go through CBM in 88...wasn't a shock when I was driving over their old airbases after Desert Storm. They flew well enough to get the hell out when the fighting started.