Not trying to start a big thing here, but there appears to be some confusion on your point, Mike. Maybe you need to clarify what you're really saying. I took your response in the same way that Huggy did.

If he's washed out of UPT, then the profession of military pilot has been removed from the table for him. Civilian pilot would be the only other profession (in aviation) that's still on the table. Is that the profession you're advising him isn't his calling and to find another or I'm I out to lunch as well?

 

I think what Mike was trying to say was that if an INTERNATIONAL student did poorly enough to be washed out then maybe flying isn't in the cards for that person.

 

Was that Orville? Or Wilbur?

 

UPT scuttlebutt held that if students from certain countries washed out, they lost all their cards.

 

I washed out of UPT in 1984. There were two Saudi pilots in my class. One flew everything he was assigned and seemed to be a competent pilot. The other one partied a lot and was rarely seen in class.

After transferring to the ARNG from the ANG, I went back to see my former classmates graduate. Both Saudi pilots graduated. IMO, only one should have.

 

If you washed out before wings the simplist way to approach is to treat it like your mil time doesn't count for much (because it doesn't) and take the path to build hours and a career like everyone else who starts out from the ppl position.

You already have a degree so get yourself into a commercial/cfi training program (you can pick the style) and start building hours CFIing, banner towing, pipeline etc until you get mins for a more career type job.

 

Sounds like OP washed out after the instrument phase, which would lead me to believe that it was the advanced contact and/or formation phase (or whatever they call it these days) that got him. Fortunately, you don't have to be competent in acro or formation flying to be an airline pilot, duh! I don't mean to knock on the airline pilot profession (I'm one of them), but you don't have to be Chuck Yeager to fly a modern airliner. As long as the OP can make it through the ratings and training programs, I can't see why he can't be an airline pilot, Mike! I've flown with a few ex-military pilots who can't fly and think at the same time, even with the autopilot engaged. Apparently, the weed out process hasn't been perfected.

In regards to international students, not all countries that participate have limitless funding and/or "pride issues". It all depends on their culture and $$$. If you are talking about middle eastern countries, yeah, they have the "pride issue" and the $$$ to keep their students in the pipeline. I know several Saudis and Kuwaitis who washed back an entire year because they could not put a T-38 on the ground safely. After millions $$$, they finally caught on and were able to solo, and eventually graduate. I made sure I wasn't on the schedule to fly that day. Other European countries and Southeast Asian countries do not have the extra millions $$$ to spend (don't have big "pride" issues either), so they'll cut their losses just like Uncle Sam would. The difference between them and the middle eastern countries is that their students are well prepared before they are sent to SUPT. I find that many of the middle eastern country students are from the royal family and/or have ties to them.
I had a couple of Singapore students and they were super sharp. They also had over 100 hours in a Alpha Jet. One of them told me that they started with a 1,000 candidate and only 100 finished. Of the 100, only a dozen were sent to the states to attend SUPT. How about ENJJPT? Not all foreign students make it through that program. When was the last time you've heard a international student pilot get beheaded or flogged for washing out? Times are changing.

 

Normally I would. But I think I'll pass this time.

I recall a couple of years ago when you started a few threads asking "should I retire and go to the airlines", as well as basic questions about ATPs and interviews. No one was sarcastic or rude to you, nor did they question how it was you didn't have the info you needed right in your squadron. Instead, they tried to help you.

And based on my impressions (right or wrong) of you from your early posts, you had very little knowledge of GA and civil flying.

As for my post, I disagree with what you wrote. If you'd like to comment, correct, or enlighten me, then please do so. I've learned plenty here and and maybe your rebuttal will give me something new to think about.

But save the rudeness for your 4-ship debrief.


You going into comedy now??

 

First hand similar experience: you can still become a career aviator.

I was an advanced Strike/Jet student that "washed out" prior to wings. At this point I hold a career flying that my flight school classmates are envious of - so my recommendation is to press on in an active/guard/reserve career and use the GI Bill to it's fullest through CFI/II/MEI and all the time building you need to move forward.

The GI Bill funded all of my ratings beyond the PPL, including a few type ratings that led me to my current career.

Best of luck.

 

To the OP. First off I'm sorry to hear you washed out, I'm certain that was a rough time. The fact that you want to keep flying is both awesome and proves you have a passion for flying. So, as the others have said, work hard, get the ratings and build the hours. There are many options to get the ratings none of which are cheap. If you can use the gi bill I'd do it, just be certain you'll get reembursed, the va has changed a few rules regarding flight schools. Good luck, stay positive, own what happened at UPT, learn from it and move on.