Notices
Money Talk Your hard-earned money

Atlas Shrugged

Old 12-20-2009, 12:38 PM
  #41  
Gets Weekends Off
 
MEMpilot's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 204
Default

"Free" healthcare in Japan? Healthcare in Japan is NOT "free". Not to be rude, but you saying so is ignorant and irresponsible.
The diction I used might have been too generalized. Japan does in fact use the private industry to provide health-care, but its regulated by the government and provides many free services to patients, thus making it have many facets of a free health-care system. Yes, there are some medical procedures one has to pay for in Japan, but prices are set by means of a government and not the free-market. Irresponsible, no. Your reaction melodramatic? Yes.
MEMpilot is offline  
Old 12-20-2009, 03:40 PM
  #42  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Roll Inverted and Pull's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Position: Retired 767 Captain
Posts: 548
Default

"Japan has many free medical services".....Riddle me this...if it`s free, who pays for it?
Roll Inverted and Pull is offline  
Old 12-20-2009, 11:15 PM
  #43  
Line Holder
 
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 68
Default

Originally Posted by MEMpilot View Post
The diction I used might have been too generalized. Japan does in fact use the private industry to provide health-care, but its regulated by the government and provides many free services to patients, thus making it have many facets of a free health-care system. Yes, there are some medical procedures one has to pay for in Japan, but prices are set by means of a government and not the free-market. Irresponsible, no. Your reaction melodramatic? Yes.
Nice attempt to recover from your previous "generalized" assertion with a liberal dose of back-peddling and double-speak.

After your clarification, I guess health care in Japan is just nearly free thanks to (of course) the government. And, since you went to the trouble of citing them as a model of a superior system, healthcare there must be a comparative bed of roses. Again, I'll be charitible and label your comments as ignorant.

I speak with considerable personal knowledge of Japanese medical care for myself and both my immediate and extended family members. The quality of Japanese medical care is generally very good, but it does vary. The direct point-of-service fees paid are generally lower than the U.S. and if that is all you looked at one would likely come to the naive conclusion you apparently have. There are of course other costs, namely national health insurance premiums and other taxes. There are also indirect and opportunity costs that are borne by the consumer including longer waits for services, reduced accessibility to certain tests and treatments, lack of privacy and a reduced level of accountability toward the patient. Healthcare in Japan is far from being "free" or "nearly" free regardless of whatever kool-aid you've be drinking.

As much as I'm fond of Japan, having extensive experience with both systems, I'll take the U.S. over them every day and twice on Sundays. I agree healthcare insurance and the delivery of healthcare need reform. Socializing the healthcare system or having the federal government run it directly or indirectly (as current legislation on the table would) will not fix the problems.
SteamJet is offline  
Old 12-21-2009, 04:14 PM
  #44  
Gets Weekends Off
 
SmoothOnTop's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: retired
Posts: 645
Default

How about the Federal Government mandates that each State and territory develop, maintain and fund health care for legal residents of the state or territory that are uninsured.

Then, as a pilot that commutes from nearly anywhere, I can choose residency in the state (rhode island for example) or territory (think Saint Johns, USVI, etc.) that does it in the most efficient manner.

Rhode Island might pay for a physician's medical school tuition at Brown University. In return for the tuition, the good doctor works for four years (receiving regional airline first officer pay) at a state run hospital that provides preventative through comprehensive care for the uninsured Rhode Islanders.

This last paragraph satisfies the socialist, the conservative and regional airline pilots that claim, because of the safety nature of their professions: "we should make what doctors are paid..."
SmoothOnTop is offline  
Old 12-22-2009, 08:22 PM
  #45  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Fero's
Posts: 472
Default

Perhaps we should step aside for a moment and look and things without emotion.

Have those that are commenting ever been in business for themselves? Have you dealt, directly, with the intrusiveness of those that wish to feed from your sacrifice?

I have.

As a very bright, and well rounded, person once said to me. The single biggest impediment to my success comes from local, state, and federal government interference.

"From those with the ability, to those with the need"
chuckyt1 is offline  
Old 12-23-2009, 09:23 PM
  #46  
Gets Weekends Off
 
MEMpilot's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 204
Default

Nice attempt to recover from your previous "generalized" assertion with a liberal dose of back-peddling and double-speak.
Political-free zone. The mention of Japan having free health-care was used to refute the prior charts that argued "more privatization = less government interference" as Japan maintains a heavily government sponsored program. I was not attempting to say I prefer one system over another by merely mentioning it...

I think I made it pretty clear I'm not liberal. But it seems if one is to criticize the liberatarian fundamentalists, then I'm suddenly a Keynesian socialist. I feel bad for those who adhere to a stringent set of principles and are unabashed to question the validity of any ideology. This has only led the world down tunnels of darkness.
MEMpilot is offline  
Old 12-24-2009, 07:22 AM
  #47  
Line Holder
 
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 68
Default

Originally Posted by MEMpilot View Post
Political-free zone. The mention of Japan having free health-care was used to refute the prior charts that argued "more privatization = less government interference" as Japan maintains a heavily government sponsored program. I was not attempting to say I prefer one system over another by merely mentioning it...

I think I made it pretty clear I'm not liberal. But it seems if one is to criticize the liberatarian fundamentalists, then I'm suddenly a Keynesian socialist. I feel bad for those who adhere to a stringent set of principles and are unabashed to question the validity of any ideology. This has only led the world down tunnels of darkness.
"liberal" means more than one thing. A "liberal dose" in my previous message meant "much" "a lot of", etc., not a political philosophy. I don't care what political philosphy you subscribe to and I'm not attacking yours (whatever it is) or defending mine (which happens to not be liberatarian as you apparently believe) nor any other.

I wrote to refute your asseration that Japan's healthcare system is "free". It's not. What you said was wrong (meaning incorrect or inaccurate). I wrote to refute what you wrote because in my opinion it contributes to the pervasive notion that there is such as thing as a "free lunch". NOTHING provided by any government is free. Everyone always pays - whether its $$ or liberty - you always pay. Often, those things that are reputed to be "free" really cost the most dearly - government provided healthcare being one of those things.

That was my point. So, unless you wish to further engage on the topic of "healthcare in Japan is free", I'm done. Peace be unto you and yours.
SteamJet is offline  
Old 12-24-2009, 01:09 PM
  #48  
Gets Weekends Off
 
MEMpilot's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 204
Default

If you wanted to dissect the notion of the word 'free' and how nothing is ever absolutely free, then that is your choice to be patronizing.

I think as adults here, we don't have explain to other adults "Son, nothing is free, somebody is paying for it...." Yes, I realize this.

Its almost like you're arguing for the sake of arguing.

You know those ads in the AOPA magazines that say "WIN A FREE CIRRUS SR-22!"

Saying "free healthcare" is simply an expression that has, overtime, come to mean that it is government-sponsored. I understand that it isn't free in the purest sense. Like saying "free-market." Well what is free about the free-market anyway if we have a big government agency regulating it? Its simply an expression of speech that has fallen in line with the context of its use.

Enjoy your free Christmas. Oh wait, Santa is payin' for that in back breaking labor bouncing from Chimney to chimney! No really, have a good Christmas.
MEMpilot is offline  
Old 12-28-2009, 11:11 AM
  #49  
Libertarian Resistance
 
Winged Wheeler's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 757 FO
Posts: 1,057
Default

Originally Posted by MEMpilot View Post
Political-free zone. The mention of Japan having free health-care was used to refute the prior charts that argued "more privatization = less government interference" as Japan maintains a heavily government sponsored program. I was not attempting to say I prefer one system over another by merely mentioning it...

I think I made it pretty clear I'm not liberal. But it seems if one is to criticize the liberatarian fundamentalists, then I'm suddenly a Keynesian socialist. I feel bad for those who adhere to a stringent set of principles and are unabashed to question the validity of any ideology. This has only led the world down tunnels of darkness.
MEMpilot,

I assume it was the chart that I posted to which you refer here. It did not attempt to illustrate a relationship between government interference and privatization; rather, it graphed a relationship between economic freedom and prosperity.

Prosperity is relatively easy to measure--they simply use per capita GDP numbers for each country. Economic freedom is a bit tougher to define. The authors of the study that we are discussing used the following method to rate economic freedom:

We measure ten components of economic freedom, assigning a grade in each using a scale from 0 to 100, where 100 represents the maximum freedom. The ten component scores are then averaged to give an overall economic freedom score for each country. The ten components of economic freedom are: Business Freedom | Trade Freedom | Fiscal Freedom | Government Size | Monetary Freedom | Investment Freedom | Financial Freedom | Property rights | Freedom from Corruption | Labor Freedom



Japan scores pretty highly on economic freedom--it is categorized as "mostly free". And it has the high prosperity to show for it. In the category ratings for economic freedom Japan's average is brought down by, among other things, a large government size and high taxes--perhaps related to the health care system? If you are interested, this analysis of Japanese economic freedom is here:


Japan information on economic freedom | Facts, data, analysis, charts and more

As to my "libertarian fundamentalism", you are free to criticize as you see fit. I do not necessarily think that makes you a Keynesian (the modifier "socialist" is redundant). I like to think that I am open minded and am receptive to an argument if it is well made.

I think that it is good to adhere to principles. I believe in individual liberty, economic and otherwise, as encoded in the Constitution. If that makes me a "fundamentalist", then I celebrate fundamentalism.

Cheers

WW
Winged Wheeler is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
kwri10s
Atlas/Polar
8
01-05-2020 03:43 AM
savannahceltic
Cargo
5
03-09-2009 08:32 AM
Splanky
Atlas/Polar
2
10-05-2008 09:38 PM
qiutong
Cargo
5
08-07-2008 03:21 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices