Leave Netjets?
06-29-2017 | 08:13 PM
#281
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
From: CL650
When I left after the 2016 contract I was making about $900/day as a maxed out small cabin Captain. As a second year FO if I just fly my 15.5 day average per month schedule I average about 120 TFP per/month. That equates to $800/day. Year 12 FO that would equate to $1360/day. Even if things slowed and a person was only getting 100 TFP/month that would equate to $1133/day.
But where the real money is made is with premium. The ability to hold premium increases with seniority. Even as a junior guy there are times during the summer when I have my pick there is so much available. I missed a bid the other day for a two day that would have paid me $3500 by one number. That trip would have paid a senior FO at today's rates which will increase over the next few years $5200 for two days and a Captain $7700. There are a lot of senior FO's and Captains who “clear their board” (drop all their trips) and fly mostly premium. If I told you how much some of these guys make you wouldn't believe me so I won't.
Add another 14 percent for the B fund and if PS is hanging in another 10-15 percent for that as well.
But where the real money is made is with premium. The ability to hold premium increases with seniority. Even as a junior guy there are times during the summer when I have my pick there is so much available. I missed a bid the other day for a two day that would have paid me $3500 by one number. That trip would have paid a senior FO at today's rates which will increase over the next few years $5200 for two days and a Captain $7700. There are a lot of senior FO's and Captains who “clear their board” (drop all their trips) and fly mostly premium. If I told you how much some of these guys make you wouldn't believe me so I won't.
Add another 14 percent for the B fund and if PS is hanging in another 10-15 percent for that as well.
Your SW numbers are very close to what I estimated on my spreadsheet.
As for the NJ numbers.... Did you derive the $900/day figure by dividing 14yr 7/7 Capt Base salary into 180?
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06-30-2017 | 04:19 AM
#282
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
If you prefer total compensation here's a few numbers.
Max small cabin NJA pay: 164 + 6 over 14 year bonus + about 12k soft money ( I made 10k the last year I was there) + 9-12k 401k match depending on age. $194.000 total compensation.
Second year FO: 120 TFP x 100 X 12 = 144 + about 25% B fund and PS = $180,000
In actuality I pick up here and there. I did 140 TFP in May and 130 in June.
With seniority comes the ability to fly more premium. I fly with guys all the time who routinely credit 140-170.
12 year FO: 120 TFP x 172/hr x 12 = $247,680 x 1.25 = $309,600
Same as above but crediting 140 TFP = $361,200
12 year Captain as above 120 TFP @ 245/hr total with B and PS = $441,000
Same as above but crediting 140 TFP = $514,500
Hope that helps.
06-30-2017 | 05:31 AM
#283
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
From: CL650
Yes that's how I derived it.
If you prefer total compensation here's a few numbers.
Max small cabin NJA pay: 164 + 6 over 14 year bonus + about 12k soft money ( I made 10k the last year I was there) + 9-12k 401k match depending on age. $194.000 total compensation.
Second year FO: 120 TFP x 100 X 12 = 144 + about 25% B fund and PS = $180,000
In actuality I pick up here and there. I did 140 TFP in May and 130 in June.
With seniority comes the ability to fly more premium. I fly with guys all the time who routinely credit 140-170.
12 year FO: 120 TFP x 172/hr x 12 = $247,680 x 1.25 = $309,600
Same as above but crediting 140 TFP = $361,200
12 year Captain as above 120 TFP @ 245/hr total with B and PS = $441,000
Same as above but crediting 140 TFP = $514,500
Hope that helps.
If you prefer total compensation here's a few numbers.
Max small cabin NJA pay: 164 + 6 over 14 year bonus + about 12k soft money ( I made 10k the last year I was there) + 9-12k 401k match depending on age. $194.000 total compensation.
Second year FO: 120 TFP x 100 X 12 = 144 + about 25% B fund and PS = $180,000
In actuality I pick up here and there. I did 140 TFP in May and 130 in June.
With seniority comes the ability to fly more premium. I fly with guys all the time who routinely credit 140-170.
12 year FO: 120 TFP x 172/hr x 12 = $247,680 x 1.25 = $309,600
Same as above but crediting 140 TFP = $361,200
12 year Captain as above 120 TFP @ 245/hr total with B and PS = $441,000
Same as above but crediting 140 TFP = $514,500
Hope that helps.
Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk
07-01-2017 | 04:35 AM
#284
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 542
Likes: 0
From: Pilot
Thanks for the information. There is certainly a lot of money to be made at SWA and the first year or two was made a lot easier by those that were able to take the resignation money NetJets has offered in the past.
However, it's useful to compare apples-to-apples. If you are talking about trading trips at SWA, not considering vacations lost by leaving NetJets, not considering the amount of training time initially at SWA, a commute to OAK, crash pads, commuting in a day early, yada yada, then I'm not sure the comparison is valid.
Don't get me wrong, SWA has a lot of options and great pay. I'd love to have a SWAPA style contract at NetJets. Overall I think SWA is a better company. However, when I compare averages it takes a good 10 years to break even for a NJA captain that wants to move on. Those first couple years anywhere are likely to hurt with lost income and lost quality of life. And there is certainly an opportunity cost to the family if you have young ones at home. A friend of mine went to a legacy and was based on reserve in a crash pad at NYC. Will he do better than me in his 50s and 60s? I can almost guarantee he will. But, he literally lost a year with his children by rotting in a crash pad near New York. To me that isn't worth it, even though he'll likely be in retirement $1 million wealthier than I will.
It's great pilots finally have so many options. But, I like to compare median pay and QOL to median pay and QOL.
With that said, the pay at NetJets is too low and the argument can be made that even Allegiant pays higher than NetJets now. We have nobody to blame but ourselves for that. Congrats to all the airlines that stood strong for decent contracts. At the very least, hopefully NJASAP can piggy-back on the airline contracts years from now.
However, it's useful to compare apples-to-apples. If you are talking about trading trips at SWA, not considering vacations lost by leaving NetJets, not considering the amount of training time initially at SWA, a commute to OAK, crash pads, commuting in a day early, yada yada, then I'm not sure the comparison is valid.
Don't get me wrong, SWA has a lot of options and great pay. I'd love to have a SWAPA style contract at NetJets. Overall I think SWA is a better company. However, when I compare averages it takes a good 10 years to break even for a NJA captain that wants to move on. Those first couple years anywhere are likely to hurt with lost income and lost quality of life. And there is certainly an opportunity cost to the family if you have young ones at home. A friend of mine went to a legacy and was based on reserve in a crash pad at NYC. Will he do better than me in his 50s and 60s? I can almost guarantee he will. But, he literally lost a year with his children by rotting in a crash pad near New York. To me that isn't worth it, even though he'll likely be in retirement $1 million wealthier than I will.
It's great pilots finally have so many options. But, I like to compare median pay and QOL to median pay and QOL.
With that said, the pay at NetJets is too low and the argument can be made that even Allegiant pays higher than NetJets now. We have nobody to blame but ourselves for that. Congrats to all the airlines that stood strong for decent contracts. At the very least, hopefully NJASAP can piggy-back on the airline contracts years from now.
07-01-2017 | 06:15 AM
#285
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Thanks for the information. There is certainly a lot of money to be made at SWA and the first year or two was made a lot easier by those that were able to take the resignation money NetJets has offered in the past.
However, it's useful to compare apples-to-apples. If you are talking about trading trips at SWA, not considering vacations lost by leaving NetJets, not considering the amount of training time initially at SWA, a commute to OAK, crash pads, commuting in a day early, yada yada, then I'm not sure the comparison is valid.
Don't get me wrong, SWA has a lot of options and great pay. I'd love to have a SWAPA style contract at NetJets. Overall I think SWA is a better company. However, when I compare averages it takes a good 10 years to break even for a NJA captain that wants to move on. Those first couple years anywhere are likely to hurt with lost income and lost quality of life. And there is certainly an opportunity cost to the family if you have young ones at home. A friend of mine went to a legacy and was based on reserve in a crash pad at NYC. Will he do better than me in his 50s and 60s? I can almost guarantee he will. But, he literally lost a year with his children by rotting in a crash pad near New York. To me that isn't worth it, even though he'll likely be in retirement $1 million wealthier than I will.
It's great pilots finally have so many options. But, I like to compare median pay and QOL to median pay and QOL.
With that said, the pay at NetJets is too low and the argument can be made that even Allegiant pays higher than NetJets now. We have nobody to blame but ourselves for that. Congrats to all the airlines that stood strong for decent contracts. At the very least, hopefully NJASAP can piggy-back on the airline contracts years from now.
However, it's useful to compare apples-to-apples. If you are talking about trading trips at SWA, not considering vacations lost by leaving NetJets, not considering the amount of training time initially at SWA, a commute to OAK, crash pads, commuting in a day early, yada yada, then I'm not sure the comparison is valid.
Don't get me wrong, SWA has a lot of options and great pay. I'd love to have a SWAPA style contract at NetJets. Overall I think SWA is a better company. However, when I compare averages it takes a good 10 years to break even for a NJA captain that wants to move on. Those first couple years anywhere are likely to hurt with lost income and lost quality of life. And there is certainly an opportunity cost to the family if you have young ones at home. A friend of mine went to a legacy and was based on reserve in a crash pad at NYC. Will he do better than me in his 50s and 60s? I can almost guarantee he will. But, he literally lost a year with his children by rotting in a crash pad near New York. To me that isn't worth it, even though he'll likely be in retirement $1 million wealthier than I will.
It's great pilots finally have so many options. But, I like to compare median pay and QOL to median pay and QOL.
With that said, the pay at NetJets is too low and the argument can be made that even Allegiant pays higher than NetJets now. We have nobody to blame but ourselves for that. Congrats to all the airlines that stood strong for decent contracts. At the very least, hopefully NJASAP can piggy-back on the airline contracts years from now.
It's not for everyone, and honestly it's not a good fit for everyone.
07-03-2017 | 05:31 PM
#287
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 978
Likes: 107
From APC's Southwest page:
Mandatory Retirements:
2017 - 146
2018 - 110
2019 - 135
2020 - 164
2021 - 206
2022 - 195
2023 - 239
2024 - 289
2025 - 313
2026 - 378
2027 - 399
2028 - 395
2029 - 393
2030 - 391
2031 - 380
2032 - 381
2033 - 381
2034 - 436
2035 - 444
2036 - 374
2037 - 363
2038 - 340
2039 - 322
2040 - 280
2041 - 235
2042 - 193
2043 - 155
2044 - 113
2045 - 115
2046 - 91
2047 - 68
2048 - 34
2049 - 14
2050 - 6
2051 - 5
2052 - 1
Mandatory Retirements:
2017 - 146
2018 - 110
2019 - 135
2020 - 164
2021 - 206
2022 - 195
2023 - 239
2024 - 289
2025 - 313
2026 - 378
2027 - 399
2028 - 395
2029 - 393
2030 - 391
2031 - 380
2032 - 381
2033 - 381
2034 - 436
2035 - 444
2036 - 374
2037 - 363
2038 - 340
2039 - 322
2040 - 280
2041 - 235
2042 - 193
2043 - 155
2044 - 113
2045 - 115
2046 - 91
2047 - 68
2048 - 34
2049 - 14
2050 - 6
2051 - 5
2052 - 1
07-04-2017 | 03:24 PM
#289
On Reserve
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
That is one of the big issues. NJ is hiring at a trickle with no mandatory retirement age. SW is hiring 700+ a year for the near future. Definitely nice to get a cushion on the seniority list instead of hanging on at the bottom.
07-05-2017 | 06:29 AM
#290
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,866
Likes: 0
From: Left
SWA is hiring 700+ per year but retiring 200-400 per year according to that list. How does that impact upgrade at SWA?
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