JMO127

So what's the starting for a First year FO?

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Retractable

I will be happy for their families for having the potential at making 200k as SICs if that’s what they choose as a family unit.

It’s very interesting to see the “math” and the aspersions cast here from a few who either think ALL pilots should make the same level of income for differing amounts of effort OR that making above a certain level of income (there’s most likely) is a bad thing because they, themselves, wouldn’t or couldn’t expend the effort.

Absolutely NOBODY is selling this TA as a pay cut or pay optimizer. Absolutely NOBODY in the company is doing the same.

It’s absolutely a pay accelerator for those who are going to work... to work.

The TA will likely will bring flight hour averages up for many... I don’t see the TA limiting flying at all, especially in new and growing fleets.

Legacy fleets being reduced? Sure. I get that.

tm602

Or more likely...those who are willing to cloud their better judgement for more money. This TA does nothing, nada, zero, to limit the poor scheduling practices and knee-jerk reactions to aircraft writeups. All it does is put a carrot in front of the horse as it gallops toward the cliff.

And the ones we need to worry about most, the dinosaurs who "can't" quit because they have 5 ex-wives, or too many toys, will be even more fun to babysit as they charge even harder for mo money mo money mo money. I come to work to work: Mongo fly planes till Mongo can't fly no more. I must be doing things right because the owners remember me by name and are all smiles when I see them, even months later (one of the nice things about the Phlegm Jet). So my behavior will change 0%. And so with this TA I don't stand to gain much at all. No big deal because I live within my means. BUT, we are going to see seriously bad judgements being made by no small number of our compadres now that money is a factor in the risk assessment. "Well, I'm pretty tired, but at least I'm getting $___ so its worth it" will be the new thing. Not to mention, the owners will not get the attention and effort they deserve because the crews will still be tired and not have the extra "oomph" for them. But hey, more money. I'd have much rather seen the same money, but with restrictions on bad scheduling. I do see some improvement as of late in my scheduling, but can't help but feel that its to soften us up, I don't know. The games have gone on so long that its ingrained in us to feel suspect. Perhaps the only way this can be a bona fide improvement is if the 12.1 becomes something they try to limit, but even at that, there are still enough ways to milk a fruitless 12 hour day out of us once this passes. THAT is my beef...no limits in any manner, way, shape, or form on BS scheduling.

Flyfalcons

On the training/CC72 schedule, it is just under 78K base.

JMO127

Not bad. What are most tracking in to equipment wise?

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wankel7

This IBI is bad for SICs. Captains are going to get richer and it makes the left seat seem even further away. It will prolong an already redicoulus upgrade time. I am fairly sure any SIC would want an upgrade instead of IBI 2018.

One of the bullet points for this IBI was upgrades. The company proposal to check that box was embarrassing.

Retractable

I’m just not sure how you come to that conclusion my friend.

SICs are adding:

1) Longevity Pay Bonus
2) Over 40K Payscales
3) The same $ amount as PICs for FDPP, NP and NDP.
4) Signing Bonus same formula/dollars as used for PICs.

The upgrades will continue as long as the economy is hot. This isn’t a CBA dependent that you have... it’s about the economy. In fact, the upgrades you see now may just precoursor chapters yet to come where a surplus of captains in the pocket might be a great thing.

And for the record... no economy can be propped up by any CBA.

JMO127

I want to plaster this all over the walls everywhere. This is the most accurate statement to date! We are one recession away from another ****** storm from the Majors on down.

OhSnapAF

Why do the NJA pilot group continue to live like bartered wives? “He’s not hitting me now but he will in the figure...”

You can only negotiate for today and plan for a bright future. You think NetJets won’t beg for recessionary contract or threaten to furlough if crap hits the fan? Deal with it when it comes, in the meantime, fight for what you want and deserve.

Read any financial history book and you’ll be absolutely shocked to find, that the economy has highs and lows, and the low is now years overdue. If you and every other pilot could predict when the highs and lows hit, you wouldn’t be pilots. You might have locked in better pay which would have otherwise been impossible to negotiate if a recession hit when the contract became amendable. You might also have locked in 3rd rate contact language for another 7 years. How being might you be then?

wankel7

They didn’t beg for contract concessions last downturn. They simply furloughed 495 pilots. Which if done today would be up to a 07/2006 hire. My guess is the same would happen again.

Non unionized work groups lost their 401k match and company paid health care.