StrapsNChains

Again, for ANYONE looking to come to NJA, look at what these guys are saying. They're selling a bunch of "should be's" and "are gonna's". Things that HAVE NOT happened yet. Everything could change and likely will. They're also trying to sell you on the prospect of "potentially making". Look at what the FACTS are.

Fact #1: First Year FO at NJA is $68,719 until December 21, 2022. On December 21, 2022 (in a few months from now) that pay goes up to $70,781 a year. That is THE ONLY MONEY you're guaranteed! Not a penny more. That is for the 7/7 schedule that everyone is trying to sell you on. The Quality of Life (QOL) here at NJA which QOL here, for me, is fantastic. I love my schedule. Sincerely. That's where it stops.
Fact #2: The most junior Captain was hired in 2007 - 15 years ago.
Fact #3: There is no mandatory retirement age for NJA pilots regardless of all the talk (noise). NJA has not lost 10% of their pilots due to age and if you think the courts are going to allow that to happen in this day and age, c'mon man... It's 2022 and there's a pilot shortage.
Fact #4: The UNION in concert with the Company chooses what aircraft you're going to "best fit" into. You have no say. Hopefully you won't have an "unfortunate" selection into the Sovereign, XLS, Longitude, or as of late, the Phenom.
Fact#5: Other airlines, American Airlines Group (PSA, Piedmont, Envoy) and Mesa offer bonuses such as Pilot retention bonuses, experience bonuses, sign on bonuses, Type Rating Bonuses, etc along
with $90-$108 per hour first officer rates. Straight from the PSA website: Year 1 reserve $90/hr w/ 75 hours a month = $81k/year. That's a difference of ~$10k from NJA. In salary alone! Airlines (regionals included) get per diem. NJA does as well. Airlines get holiday pay. NJA does as well. Airlines get overtime pay. NJA does as well.
Fact #6: AAG starts paying Captains pay (~$140k annual base salary) at 750 hours which is appx 10 months of flying. Upgrade in 2 years. NJA MOST RECENT UPGRADE - 15 YEARS.

My opinion: The guys (FlyFalcons, jtf560, Peabody17, Das Auto) are truly the guys who put in the work during the "dark days" here at NJA. They truly had to fight for what we have today. They did the work. They earned what I have today. And I'm thankful for that. With that being said, that doesn't mean things are good compared to the other options out there. Specifically, regionals, mainline, legacy. Things here at NJA today are FANTASTIC compared to the dark days of previous leadership from what I'm told. But until there is a wage increase, compromise, or something that ups the pay of the "unfortunate" ones, if you're coming to NJA, plan on being an "unfortunate one" but hope for the best. Don't expect them (the pronoun people) to look out for you. Don't expect to make $120k a year starting out. If you do, then that's a bonus. But I also don't count my money before it's in the bank either.

I usually sit on the sidelines and watch, but when the question is asked, what is realistic FO salary at NetJets, and I see $120k/year, I have to call BS because that is NOT what I, or a lot of others are making. Sure, SOME are, but not all. Not even close to all. Just be honest. That's all I'm saying. But, I will say, there are some things that don't have a dollar value put on them. I enjoy flying to Class G airports in a jet. I enjoy my 7 days off. I just wish I enjoyed looking at my bank account compared to what it could be.

Flyfalcons

You seem new to the industry, in your expectation that a pay change at another company means that one should happen at your company immediately. That's not how life works. Pay changes based on market corrections, including job markets, can take time. If you want to play the game of jumping to a better position, then go right ahead. It sounds like Mesa might be a better fit for you. Otherwise, understand that any carrier you work for will experience bad times, decent times, and good times. Jumping from bad or decent times to the latest company experiencing good times over and over will do nothing for your career.

We are going into the busy season now. If you can tell me with a straight face that you never start a tour before 8am, never work more than 12 hours in a day, never work a holiday, never are given a long show time before 8am, never get left on duty unnecessarily after 10 hours of duty, never fly at night, and never fly more than 10 hours during a week on the road, then I'm not sure if the problem lies in what fleet you are on.

StrapsNChains

FlyFalcons, I hate to be rude, but I am not talking about pay changes happening overnight. I'm not talking about market corrections. I am talking about REALISTIC FO SALARY at NJA and mentoring people not to expect all that other soft money that doesn't happen on every tour. Does an early start before 8am happen? Yes, occasionally. Does a holiday pay happen? Yes, occasionally. Do you work more than 12 hours in a day? Yes, occasionally. Do you ever fly at night? Yes, occasionally. Do you ever fly more than 10 hours a week on the road? Yes, occasionally. Do all of those things happen every trip every time? Very rarely if ever - on ANY fleet! A lot of fleets rarely see any of those things. I'd love to know how many holiday hours you worked on your last trip? I'd love to know how many night hours you flew last trip. I'd love to know how many times you showed on your first day last trip... Even on the message board, someone posted day 6 and 11.4 hours total. The question was, "What is realistic FO salary at NetJets?" You're giving BEST CASE SCENARIO, not REALISTIC EXCEPTATION. Why can't you just answer the question? Hopefully I'm not making the wrong assumption that you have been here a while, and also assume you're a PIC here with more than 15 years on property. With that being said, unless you have data that shows what an FO is ACTUALLY making, not what they *could* be making on their best trip here, then your response to this thread is hypothetical and mine, being a new-er FO with less than 2 years, is accurate and factual, not hypothetical based off of numbers on a chart, could be's, or should be's. Instead of implying that I'm the problem, maybe look at how you're answering the question of, "What is realistic FO salary at NetJets?" as the thread is titled. Maybe your skills of a pilot are being wasted flying CL350s and you should consider a management position in the recruiting department. It sounds like your information is more aligned there.

StrapsNChains

FlyFalcons, I hate to be rude, but I am not talking about pay changes happening overnight. I'm not talking about market corrections. I am talking about REALISTIC FO SALARY at NJA and mentoring people not to expect all that other soft money that doesn't happen on every tour. Does an early start before 8am happen? Yes, occasionally. Does a holiday pay happen? Yes, occasionally. Do you work more than 12 hours in a day? Yes, occasionally. Do you ever fly at night? Yes, occasionally. Do you ever fly more than 10 hours a week on the road? Yes, occasionally. Do all of those things happen every trip every time? Very rarely if ever - on ANY fleet! A lot of fleets rarely see any of those things. I'd love to know how many holiday hours you worked on your last trip? I'd love to know how many night hours you flew last trip. I'd love to know how many times you showed on your first day last trip... Even on the message board, someone posted day 6 and 11.4 hours total. The question was, "What is realistic FO salary at NetJets?" You're giving BEST CASE SCENARIO, not REALISTIC expectation. Why can't you just answer the question? Hopefully I'm not making the wrong assumption that you have been here a while, and also assume you're a PIC here with more than 15 years on property. With that being said, unless you have data that shows what an FO is ACTUALLY making, not what they *could* be making on their best trip here, then your response to this thread is hypothetical and mine, being a new-er FO with less than 2 years, is accurate and factual, not hypothetical based off of numbers on a chart, could be's, or should be's. Instead of implying that I'm the problem, maybe look at how you're answering the question of, "What is realistic FO salary at NetJets?" as the thread is titled. Maybe your skills of a pilot are being wasted flying CL350s and you should consider a management position in the recruiting department. It sounds like your information is more aligned there.

Flyfalcons

You're not being rude, but you're not exactly being truthful either (see your fact #1, where you conveniently leave out training pay). You have not been here for long and perhaps you don't understand that you will have slow weeks and busy weeks, and over the course of a year, the soft money you earn through simply doing your job is not insubstantial. But if you feel the draw of $100/hr at a regional (minus health care, commuting expenses, uniforms, etc.....gross vs net, right?), then that may be the better option for you. It sounds like your happiness might depend on it, versus making up arguments that people are supposedly using here to argue against.

Peabody17

StrapsNChains,

Perhaps you didn't start reading this thread until you started posting, but this is what I posted a couple of weeks ago:

Maybe that meets your requirements:

hawkerpilot05

I would add that not having to commute for some is a huge benefit. Enough so that they are willing to trade a lot for that. From what I hear, commuting for a Regional is the worst.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

guyinthesky

Can confirm, I am doing it right now at a large west coast regional. Thinking of making the jump to NJA for the homebase and I like the flying better than the airlines. My only gripe is the base salary and the fluctuation of the soft pay.

Das Auto

Thank you for the shout out, but I can't take any credit for battles fought and won in the past. That would be stolen valor! I've only been at NJ for around 18 months.
I post on here because after filtering through the BS on APC I found some useful information which ultimaltely led me to making NetJets my first choice career destination. I thought I'd pay it back and provide some candid information for others looking to come here.

That said, I still stand by my personal opinion that for total year one pay, it's more than reasonable to budget for a minimum of 100k. Most will make more, some might make a bit less.

I was hired in the middle of the year so I can't post a Jan - Dec W2 number, but I can tell you that I personally made $265,000 in my first year. The caveat is I worked my butt off and picked up as much open time as I could, so my numbers are not typical by any means, but they are possible.

I'm in one of the slower fleets too (XLS) and now that I'm on the 7&7 and haven't picked up any extra days lately, I have experienced some of what you're saying. I agree, it's disappointing when you have a quiet tour, but we are in the slow season.

The demand is looking strong from October until the end of the year, so in the meantime I'll hang out with my family while the pool is still warm, then get back out there when the opportunity presents itself again, but this time in moderation.

JJDriver

I wish your upgrade prediction was right but it’s not looking like it’s going to happen. Unless something drastic changes it appears the company is going to continue to sacrifice upgrades for new hires so the upgrades are going to continue to trickle at the 8/month until FlightSafety has a solution. With still 120ish covered FO’s to go it will be nearly another year and a half to break the 15+ year upgrade, although at that point it will be nearly 16-17 years. So far the company wants to keep hiring 400/year so something will have to give. Being in my 15th year and towards the bottom of the list it’s growing harder to remain optimistic. If I didn’t have family obligations depending on my schedule and maxed vacation I would’ve moved on.