gomissedagain

15 years?!?! Is this currently accurate? I thought I’ve read recently (last 6mo) y’all were down to 6-8 years?

TeamSasquatch

The company can’t say 5 year (or less) upgrade, until it happens. That being said, it’s gonna have to happen soon. PIC/SIC ratio is is about as low as they like it. The fleet growth seems to be off the charts. So, even if they take half the tails and retire all the XLS and 680 overnight, they will still be upgrading. Factor in a MRA, and it’s a whole different deal too.

Lastly, consider the number hired between 2015 and 2021. Probably <350 pilots. Could take as little as 1 year to move the bar from a 2015 to a 2022 hire. But, could take 3 years too.

These are best case numbers though… YMMV

Flyfalcons

Pilots going through upgrade now were hired 15 years ago, and recalled from furlough 8 years ago. Extrapolating this to post-furlough hires, we will soon be seeing 8-year pilots upgrading. As our expansion and increased hiring has only started relatively recently, it is anticipated that upgrade time will decrease from that.

shrsailplanes

That’s what we were told in indoc, because that’s who currently are being upgraded.

jtf560

As stated before, this will very rapidly go way down, probably by the end of this year. If the company truly grows at the rate they want, I would guess it gets down to 3 or 4 years in the not distant future. That said, I was told I would upgrade in 2 to 3 years when I was hired in early 2006. My first oportunity for upgrade was at a little over 13 years on the seniority list. I have not taken an upgrade since I am at the top of the pay scales as a Global SIC and while I'm giving up tens of thousands of dollars per year, the quality of life for me on the Global is worth the difference in pay. PIC in anything I can hold- anything through the Latitude is way harder work and shorter overnights than I am willing to go with. As many here have said, the job here will always suck a little bit. There are many things that still make it desirable enough for me in my personal situation to stick around for, but if I wasn't reasonably senior with max vacations and able to live wherever I want (and a bit younger), I would bail out for the majors or good cargo. We keep getting just enough in each new contract to keep me tied in.

gomissedagain

Out of curiosity what percentage of the pilot group is over 65? I would imagine if NetJets ever set an arbitrary retirement age that could also dramatically increase upgrade times? Assuming a large portion of the group is older than younger? What’s the age of the oldest flying pilot? This I’m really curious about since I’m not an invincible 20 year old anymore and slowly facing my own mortality both as a pilot and as a human being lol.

jtf560

I believe there are somewhere around 300 pilots 65+. The biggest percentage of pilots are in their 50s, but if hiring keeps up strong, the biggest percentage will run into late 20s, early 30s before long. A mandatory retirement age would bring upgrade times down since the vast majority that will be parked are PICs.

Peabody17

As jtf said, I’ve heard that about 10% of the current pilot force is 65 or over. If NetJets suddenly imposes a mandatory age limit, that will undo almost a years worth of new-hire recruiting and throw the current training struggles into a full-on furr-ball of a catastrophe.

Das Auto

I'm going to speculate and say that IF the current rate of hiring and aircraft deliveries continue at the current rate a 3-4 year upgrade is certainly possible. I was hired mid last year, already have 600+ below me and the last upgrade award went to someone approximately 250 ahead of me on the seniority list. Considering they're hiring 400 - 450 a year, it's feasible that I could upgrade before my 39 month seat lock expires.

Of course in this industry we all run the risk of getting our pants pulled down at short notice, but I remain hopeful and optimistic.

hawkerpilot05

We sure have come a long way since when in the 2015 contract we added language that if you are parked in a hotel all day on your last day with no airplane duty, you got overtime if they didn't get you home by a certain time.

Back when we weren't flying as much, we would sit in the hotel and go home late on the last day. If those times return, some pilots are going to be hurting in the FDP department.

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