OnTheMeridian

Netjets is a very good job. But like any other job, opinions about it are going to be all over the spectrum. Many like it. Some love it. Others think it's "meh". And a small handful clearly hate it. It's very subjective, depending on what an individual's priorities are in a flying job. If it's only money, we do pretty well, but a very money-oriented person will be better off at the legacy carriers. If it's a schedule, definitely the airlines! If you want a good-paying job with a lot of variety in equipment and destinations, then perhaps Netjets is the better choice. Quite a few variables to consider and everyone needs to consider what they want in a long-term aviation career. For me, it's been one heckuva ride, and while I suppose I would've done better financially at the airlines, I'm not exactly hurting for anything, and my retirement, again while not equal to someone at the airlines, will still provide me a very comfortable trip through my golden years.

As for our union, a GREAT value for the dues paid! They've made some missteps, some of them pretty big, over the years. But in the aggregate, it's been one of the best investments over the years. Comparing to other unions is pointless. We're a different part of the industry with different issues (as well as many that are the same as other unions), and progress has been tremendous. Some like to whine about section 6 versus IBI. It's an interesting comparison, but I think those in favor of section 6 are wearing some pretty rosy glasses about how that works out.

Our last section 6 was not resolved overnight. Section 6 does, and has, gone on for years. If you look at the airlines, some of those negotiations have gone on for 8 or more years. The idea that our IBI agreements have pushed the amenable date out fairly far is not worrisome to me anyway. A section 6 negotiation that starts several years earlier than that does not mean it'd be done before the amenable date we currently have. Section 6 also means EVERYTHING is on the table. The whole CBA. That could be good for us, but it creates leverage for the company and fights we wouldn't necessarily have during an IBI. For example, in an IBI the focus is limited and may, for example, only deal with FDP pay and adding another schedule (such as the 8/6). That's all that's on the table. But with section 6, the company can push for things like asking us to start paying premiums on our health insurance (something I know they'd sorely love for us to do) and eliminating the CC52 schedule. Of course we don't have to agree to any of it, but it's illustrative of how big and all-inclusive the fight becomes and how it could drag out a very long time (which works in the company's favor because if they can drag it out for years they get us for all that time at present wages and benefits without having to pay for any gains). The incremental gains with IBI's are gains we either wouldn't have seen this soon or wouldn't have been able to recoup the cost of lost earnings over time.

IBI isn't perfect, but I prefer it over section 6. And keep in mind, our union continues to push for gains outside of IBI and/or section 6 and has been pretty darn successful at securing quite a few things we want without any real fight. And they've been simply awesome at protecting our current CBA. Grievances are very low and the company has been very diligent at following the rules. Not perfect, but about as good as can be expected from most companies with a union and CBA. They aren't doing it because they love us. They're doing it because NJASAP has been excellent at holding their feet to the contractual fire.

NJASAP isn't perfect. They can improve. And as I said, it's history has some blotches I wish hadn't happened. But I think those who hate it the most are people who don't like the fact the union doesn't forward their personal agendas, or are people who don't understand, or care to acknowledge, how things get done in a union or negotiations. Some people seem to think if our union just walks into Netjet's management office, slams a fist onto their desk and makes demands that we'll get everything we want and the fact that we don't have everything we want is just proof the union isn't really trying, or somehow taking the company's side. It's not even remotely like that or how it works, but haters gonna hate.

ZebraSpots

I’d hardly describe NetJets as a charter job… unless we’re also generalizing Spirit as Delta too. Or Atlas as Fed Ex.

Both statements are largely inaccurate to the point anyone seriously suggesting the statement seriously a solid understanding of the industry.

Or the statement is being offered as Grade A 100% USDA Prime FlameBait.

DocMcFly

Someone help me understand why I keep seeing comments that airlines have better schedules than Netjets?

I’m currently commuting at a regional. A set 7/7 schedule seems amazing to me with commuting done “on the clock” rather than personal time and not having huge fluctuations in workdays from one month to the next with only a weeks advance notice.

I’ve read enough of the legacies, LCC, and ULLC forums to know that they are working at minimum 10 days but closer to 14 anyway.

As far as hours on duty… 12+ is the norm for my regional and pretty much all the others I’ve read about: inefficient trip pairings, long sits, constant IROPS, early starts/late endings, etc. I admit I don’t know much about average duty day lengths at the majors. However, 12+ hours a day doesn’t really bother me. Coming from a different industry, second career, being a professional pilot is crazy easy.

Let’s also remove WB international flying schedules from consideration, which only recently became attainable at a few airlines.

At my regional we also have literally 0 ability to drop trips and make changes to our schedules based on poor staffing models by the company. But even if this can be done at the majors they are still working 10-14 days. This can’t be the ONE thing that makes everyone say airlines have better schedules?

So what am I missing? TIA

Deserthusker

I think they are saying it is easier to change your schedule at the majors. At NJ your days are not the easiest to move around. If you choose the 7/7 or 8/6 you are able to slide them a couple days back and forth(if approved) or tour swap them if someone else wants to trade. You are not able to drop them without using PTO.

Personally I love the 7/7 as I can make plans up to a year out. Once I get my schedule award my wife goes to work finding places to go on my off weeks.

As far as the 12 hour days being the norm it depends. Right now I am averaging just under 11 hours a day. Yes there are occasional 14 hours but not often. It only takes one phone call to end too many of those and they usually are open to changing stuff before you have to call fatigued.

ZebraSpots

There is no comparison. 8n6 or 7n7 is no tricks. No commute. On the clock. Fly from home. As awesome as it sounds.

I always thought of 7n7 as a 5 day with two stress free travel days on either end of the trip you’re also paid to make.

Peabody17

This^^^

My wife does exactly the same thing. It’s like I have a whole bunch of mini vacations. And when I do have a vacation “week”, it’s actually three weeks off. Sure, it may be harder to get a particular day off compared to our 121 sisters/brothers, but knowing my schedule sometimes a year in advance is priceless!

And DocMcFly, your situation perfectly describes why regional pilots are filling our Expos and new-hire classes.

DocMcFly

Ok, so y’all seem to agree with me: from the outside looking in NetJets has a better schedule than the airlines… being able to drop trips and make a new schedule is not worth much to me when you’re still only able to plan your life one month at a time plus the hassle of commuting. Everyone’s circumstances are different.

Getting to the majors was the end goal when I first got into this business until I learned about NetJets. Ha. It took me half a second to realize
this is the schedule/commuting system I want.
Thanks for the replies.

Deserthusker

I always ask people what their definition of quality of life is. Mine is knowing days off way ahead of time not daily life on the road. some days are hard some are way easy. If pay is your ultimate definition then the airlines should be your goal. Everyone is different.

Sidewinder27

There is another thread that covers schedules at NJA in detail. As for above I'll add this:

-comparing schedules at NJA and any airline is like Naval Aviation and Army Aviation; yes it's flying, but there are different missions and roles.
-NJA can't drop trips, can't sit reserve and you can't and no month-to-month schedule bids.

-What you can do is bid a variety of crew choice schedules over a four month, a trimester, period and work 76/72/60/52 days in that window.
-You can slide work weeks a few days, aka tours, and try to get select days off or bid given days off while still working your required days per month.
-You can work 7/7 or an 8/6 for an entire year. This gives the pilot and family an exact schedule, including vacations, from Oct-Sept.

Again, comparing NJA against any airline isn't a true comparison whether it's schedule, type of flying, insurance, pay, soft money, crew meals, basing system, no commuting or many other aspects of the job. I come down to individual preference.

Only two aspects that do compare is that the principle of flight is the same, mountain flying is same, same weather, same FAA and we are unionized. The only unionized pilot group on our side of the aviation fence.

Sidewinder27

One cc60 trimester I had a vacation at the end of the four months and the way they worked my schedule generated only six work days that month.

For those that don't know the cc (crew choice) schedules will guarantee a min of 15 days off when a seven day vacation happens. The 7/7 gives 21 days off in a row. OK, that laid out, I had a month where I had 16 days off and that didn't include a vacation week. Just off!

Again, anyone wanting to fly at NJA or any fraction styled company has to not mind some of the drawbacks presented that the 121 world doesn't have. Or if you don't want the drawbacks the 121 world presents then there are other options. It is about choice.

End of the day this industry eats its own. It is tough while rewarding. Some are able to grasp the idea of responsibility that comes with the job and some just should stock shelves at Walmart.