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Old 09-23-2023, 08:59 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by ZebraSpots
LOL. Missed again. I’m not a pro management guy 100%. I’m not a pro union guy 100%. I think you’re both crazy.

Seems to me like the union is looking for scapegoats to blame since they’ve failed to generate the leverage necessary to get this deal over the finish line.

The blame game is alive and well at NJASAP. Let’s blame the extenders. Oooooohhhkay.

“Death by 1000 cuts” actually translates to “we don’t know what to do so do anything”. I’ve seen better hit accuracy in Battleship the game.

You all had better figure this out or there simply won’t be a NetJets to worry about.
Originally Posted by ZebraSpots
LOL. Missed again. I’m not a pro management guy 100%. I’m not a pro union guy 100%. I think you’re both crazy.

Seems to me like the union is looking for scapegoats to blame since they’ve failed to generate the leverage necessary to get this deal over the finish line.

The blame game is alive and well at NJASAP. Let’s blame the extenders. Oooooohhhkay.

“Death by 1000 cuts” actually translates to “we don’t know what to do so do anything”. I’ve seen better hit accuracy in Battleship the game.

You all had better figure this out or there simply won’t be a NetJets to worry about.

I totally agree. "we don't know what to do so do anything and let's go witches of Salem mode on those that are extending because some zero brain guy told us extending benefited the company only. And same goes for everything else.


It tells a lot that most of the angry snowflakes on the MB cannot comprehend that a pretty important part of the group falls under what you wrote: "I’m not a pro management guy 100%. I’m not a pro union guy 100%. I think you’re both crazy."
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Old 09-23-2023, 09:27 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by SonnyTuckson
I totally agree. "we don't know what to do so do anything and let's go witches of Salem mode on those that are extending because some zero brain guy told us extending benefited the company only. And same goes for everything else.


It tells a lot that most of the angry snowflakes on the MB cannot comprehend that a pretty important part of the group falls under what you wrote: "I’m not a pro management guy 100%. I’m not a pro union guy 100%. I think you’re both crazy."
And when your lynch party turns enough people off.

What then? “I told you so” won’t pay the bills either.

Luthi said he needed October. Many of us did.

Attrition will continue to drive the most leverage I’ve seen in this contract debate.

Y’all need to realize that they are covering the schedule with Selloffs and 70% aircraft availability months out. The VEDs and VAWDs are there for added reliability but they could eliminate them tomorrow.

Question: What happens when corporate eliminates an expense like VEDs and VAWDs from pilots who won’t take them? They get a bonus.

So, to be clear, you’re advocating the Bobo and AJ get a bonus by eliminating VAWDs and VEDs by saving money? Conversely, if pilots take VAWDs and VEDs and save Selloff money, Bobo and AJ get a bonus by saving Selloff money.

They get a bonus either way. And you’re mad at pilots…. Got it.

Basically, you’re screaming from a Part 121 bargaining playbook and it’s painful to watch. I get it. “We’re at war” is what I’ve heard from several in leadership.

Stop fighting like the British red coats is what I’d ask.

Generate some real leverage and do the job better.
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Old 09-23-2023, 10:35 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by ZebraSpots
LOL. Missed again. I’m not a pro management guy 100%. I’m not a pro union guy 100%. I think you’re both crazy.

Seems to me like the union is looking for scapegoats to blame since they’ve failed to generate the leverage necessary to get this deal over the finish line.

The blame game is alive and well at NJASAP. Let’s blame the extenders. Oooooohhhkay.

“Death by 1000 cuts” actually translates to “we don’t know what to do so do anything”. I’ve seen better hit accuracy in Battleship the game.

You all had better figure this out or there simply won’t be a NetJets to worry about.
And what leverage exactly can the Union generate when you (and others like you) keep actively working against that leverage? You even started a pledge about not extending until a deal was done. When was that again? Oh yeah, like 2 months ago. Yet you’re right back to your usual selling your life for a cheap 60% of what you could be making instead. You really are a piece of work. Go back to hiding under beds.
Your reputation here is already in the gutter.

Oh, and an important point to make. NJASAP does NOT need to blame anyone. The pilot group is smart enough to know exactly who to blame already: Weak members like yourself who can’t endure a tiny dose of short term pain for long term gain.
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Old 09-23-2023, 10:38 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by SonnyTuckson
This is all speculation, you have absolutely zero data and proof that VAWD help maintain the status quo.Pure speculation from some looking for more crap because things are going nowhere. I can never pick some of those, they have never fell on my schedules, so it's not like it's a vital necessary tool to the company. They help us, flying more than just staying in FBO when subs are carrying the lift. VAWDs are easily replaceable by subs, why do you think they dedicate a full department to that now.
So do you think a vawd is equal to a sub as far as cost to the company?
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Old 09-23-2023, 10:43 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Deserthusker
So do you think a vawd is equal to a sub as far as cost to the company?
Cute, isn’t it? I also didn’t realize that I spent my days off sitting at FBOs, according to him.
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Old 09-23-2023, 11:35 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Blueridger
And what leverage exactly can the Union generate when you (and others like you) keep actively working against that leverage? You even started a pledge about not extending until a deal was done. When was that again? Oh yeah, like 2 months ago. Yet you’re right back to your usual selling your life for a cheap 60% of what you could be making instead. You really are a piece of work. Go back to hiding under beds.
Your reputation here is already in the gutter.

Oh, and an important point to make. NJASAP does NOT need to blame anyone. The pilot group is smart enough to know exactly who to blame already: Weak members like yourself who can’t endure a tiny dose of short term pain for long term gain.

Someone made a pledge… I remember reading that.

But we were also supposed to get a deal by OMA too, right? I mean fall…. I mean January where the old guys go. Summer 2024 anyone?

Besides… this isn’t my show. It seems sufficient leverage was generated by the bargaining unit in 2005 and 2015 by those at the controls.

Is it safe to assume the company has hardened its business to be resisted to the 2005/2015 playbook.

Maybe it’s time to update those bargaining tactics on the union side.

I don’t believe they care about Selloffs. They cost more and they’ll gladly pay the higher fee to wait us out.. or pay pilots to fly VED/VAWD.

Next area of leverage please? Not flying open time is a 121 playbook item and it’s been outfoxed.

Last edited by ZebraSpots; 09-23-2023 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 09-23-2023, 12:45 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Blueridger
And what leverage exactly can the Union generate when you (and others like you) keep actively working against that leverage? You even started a pledge about not extending until a deal was done. When was that again? Oh yeah, like 2 months ago. Yet you’re right back to your usual selling your life for a cheap 60% of what you could be making instead. You really are a piece of work. Go back to hiding under beds.
Your reputation here is already in the gutter.

Oh, and an important point to make. NJASAP does NOT need to blame anyone. The pilot group is smart enough to know exactly who to blame already: Weak members like yourself who can’t endure a tiny dose of short term pain for long term gain.
Again… the leverage isn’t there.

The union must find the proper leverage to exact results.

Using the playbook from 2005 at 121 isn’t working.

They’ll shrink the operation and charge more when attrition swells (680 and XLS mass retirement) and they’ll sell off at their short term pain to get long term gain. How’s that for peeing in the wind and calling it rain?? Our own strategy against us.

To blame anyone except themselves (especially anyone in the membership) for their own shortcomings is pathetic, cheap and undeserving of the dues we all pay. But many of us are expecting it.

But we’ve got a long history of assigning blame’s to scapegoats here don’t we? It’s the way of things with people like yourself who don’t think about things logically, only emotionally.

You can get mad at individual dues payers all you like… it doesn’t change the fact that maybe the dues payers are owed more in the form of better, more effective ideas to get this contract done.

2.5 E Days should have NEVER been agreed to. FDP plus 2.5 E Days were nothing but AJ setting the stage for where we are now.

But I’m sure that a 10 year deal with 2.5 E days is my fault too.

Checkers and Chess. Which are we playing?
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Old 09-23-2023, 03:00 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Deserthusker
So do you think a vawd is equal to a sub as far as cost to the company?
they will recover the extra cost of the sub when they write it off at the end of the fiscal year.
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Old 09-23-2023, 03:29 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by ZebraSpots
Again… the leverage isn’t there.

The union must find the proper leverage to exact results.

Using the playbook from 2005 at 121 isn’t working.

They’ll shrink the operation and charge more when attrition swells (680 and XLS mass retirement) and they’ll sell off at their short term pain to get long term gain. How’s that for peeing in the wind and calling it rain?? Our own strategy against us.

To blame anyone except themselves (especially anyone in the membership) for their own shortcomings is pathetic, cheap and undeserving of the dues we all pay. But many of us are expecting it.

But we’ve got a long history of assigning blame’s to scapegoats here don’t we? It’s the way of things with people like yourself who don’t think about things logically, only emotionally.

You can get mad at individual dues payers all you like… it doesn’t change the fact that maybe the dues payers are owed more in the form of better, more effective ideas to get this contract done.

2.5 E Days should have NEVER been agreed to. FDP plus 2.5 E Days were nothing but AJ setting the stage for where we are now.

But I’m sure that a 10 year deal with 2.5 E days is my fault too.

Checkers and Chess. Which are we playing?
Peeing into the wind is trying to have a coherent conversation with you. Do you even read the dribble that you write? No of course not, just deflecting and obfuscating. The weapon of choice for babbling empty suits.
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Old 09-23-2023, 05:01 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by SonnyTuckson
they will recover the extra cost of the sub when they write it off at the end of the fiscal year.

Exactly.

Anyone who’s ran a business knows this.

Also, anyone who’s ran a business knows the value of labor peace so I hope that we’re all rounding the corner on this bargaining cycle.
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