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Old 07-15-2013, 08:29 PM
  #3591  
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Originally Posted by ctab5060X View Post
Just to go back to this for a second...

Read 121.436 - it becomes effective August 1, 2013. Bold added.

(a)(3) If serving as pilot in command, has 1,000 hours as second in command in operations under this part, pilot in command in operations under 91.1053(a)(2)(i) of this chapter, pilot in command in operations under 135.243(a)(1) of this chapter, or any combination thereof. For those pilots who are employed as pilot in command in part 121 operations on July 31, 2013, compliance with the requirements of this subparagraph is not required.
I'm glad to hear this, as I was worried one of my classmates was gonna get downgraded due to not meeting the 1,000 121 SIC requirement. He's former military with lots of heavy time.

Originally Posted by ctab5060X View Post
The interesting section is the following areas:

(b) No certificate holder may use nor may any pilot act as second in command unless the pilot holds an airline transport pilot certificate and an appropriate aircraft type rating for the aircraft being flown. A second-in-command type rating obtained under 61.55 does not satisfy the requirements of this section.
(d) Compliance with the requirements of this section is required by August 1, 2013. However, for those pilots who are employed as second in command in part 121 operations on July 31, 2013, compliance with the type rating requirement in paragraph (b) is not required until January 1, 2016.
With the new hires currently in class, do they fall under the currently employed or will they be required to have an appropriate type rating as they will not be qualified to act as second in command until after July 31?
It depends how the FAA defines "employed." I can imagine it means that if they are hired before August 1st, they're not going to be required to hold a full type rating before January 1, 2016. And that explains how we are getting away with the ALLATPs training for the certificate. That's just my interpretation.
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Old 07-15-2013, 08:32 PM
  #3592  
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Originally Posted by ctab5060X View Post
Just to go back to this for a second...

Read 121.436 - it becomes effective August 1, 2013. Bold added.



The interesting section is the following areas:



With the new hires currently in class, do they fall under the currently employed or will they be required to have an appropriate type rating as they will not be qualified to act as second in command until after July 31?
From what I understand, ANYONE who comes into training, whether previously typed on the plane from elsewhere (Colgan, Mesaba, corp company, etc..) will be getting an ATP and/or a full type rating depending on what they need. It's great learning this plane, along with the captain flows, callouts, and profiles, and the FO flows and callouts, plus profiles... good shiznit right thurr...

All the FO's will do a type ride in the left seat, and then right after their checkride with their certificate in hand, they'll switch over to the right seat for 1 hour, work with their sim instructor and just get acclimated to the right seat FO stuff (flows, procedures, etc...) so when they hit the line they know *** they're doing... sorta... This should be interesting...
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Old 07-15-2013, 08:35 PM
  #3593  
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Originally Posted by CaptainCarl View Post
It depends how the FAA defines "employed." I can imagine it means that if they are hired before August 1st, they're not going to be required to hold a full type rating before January 1, 2016. That's just my interpretation.
Exactly.

Probably the one thing that needs clarification from the company.

Wouldn't hurt for someone to find out and "publish" (not on APC) the employee number of the FO where ATP and type are required.
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Old 07-15-2013, 08:38 PM
  #3594  
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Originally Posted by EatMyPropwash View Post
From what I understand, ANYONE who comes into training, whether previously typed on the plane from elsewhere (Colgan, Mesaba, corp company, etc..) will be getting an ATP and/or a full type rating depending on what they need.
That is good to know.

I just know how things tend to fall through the cracks
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Old 07-15-2013, 08:46 PM
  #3595  
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Originally Posted by ctab5060X View Post
Exactly.

Probably the one thing that needs clarification from the company.

Wouldn't hurt for someone to find out and "publish" (not on APC) the employee number of the FO where ATP and type are required.
What?
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:19 PM
  #3596  
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Current pilots serving as an SIC are not required to have a full type until January of 2016. Anybody hired after August 1, 2013 will be required to have both the ATP and type rating.

Just trying to keep up with where the break point is on needing the type to serve as SIC. Since the current FOs had to go fly a Seminole for their ATP ride rather than do a ATP/type ride in the Saab, we are going to have a pilot group that has some FOs with a type and ones that don't. Don't want to be in trouble because I flew with an FO that was supposed to have the type rating and somehow fell through the cracks.
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Old 07-15-2013, 10:00 PM
  #3597  
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Originally Posted by ctab5060X View Post
Current pilots serving as an SIC are not required to have a full type until January of 2016. Anybody hired after August 1, 2013 will be required to have both the ATP and type rating.

Just trying to keep up with where the break point is on needing the type to serve as SIC. Since the current FOs had to go fly a Seminole for their ATP ride rather than do a ATP/type ride in the Saab, we are going to have a pilot group that has some FOs with a type and ones that don't. Don't want to be in trouble because I flew with an FO that was supposed to have the type rating and somehow fell through the cracks.
this makes me wonder about future captain upgrades... I haven't had honest time to read the whole CBA contract, but... does it mention about an order to captain upgrade, or is it just on an as needed basis depending on who bids for it? Reason I ask is... the people that have the type (like myself in a few weeks) don't need to do the ATP or PIC ride... it's just a recurrent/transiton type event that won't take nearly as long as someone doing the whole transition course, which saves $$$. So, financially if I'm understanding the captain upgrade right, it'd be cheaper ($$$ wise here) to upgrade someone who already has their type, and just got 1,000hrs 121/135 than someone who has 1,000+ but no type... I know Silver is all about the $$$ pinching.
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Old 07-16-2013, 03:51 AM
  #3598  
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Originally Posted by EatMyPropwash View Post
I haven't had honest time to read the whole CBA contract, but... does it mention about an order to captain upgrade, or is it just on an as needed basis depending on who bids for it?
Section 17-B-1-Upgrade Training: A pilot will be assigned to upgrade training (except for annual requirements, etc) in order of seniority, staffing permitted.

...but when has this company ever followed the CBA.

I believe that was part of the reasoning behind not typing guys for the ATP, because they'd just get typed during upgrade. Silver just got lucky with this whole grandfathering of the PIC type requirement. Silver Airways- Save a penny now, spend a dime later...
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Old 07-16-2013, 05:02 AM
  #3599  
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Originally Posted by ctab5060X View Post
Current pilots serving as an SIC are not required to have a full type until January of 2016. Anybody hired after August 1, 2013 will be required to have both the ATP and type rating.

Just trying to keep up with where the break point is on needing the type to serve as SIC. Since the current FOs had to go fly a Seminole for their ATP ride rather than do a ATP/type ride in the Saab, we are going to have a pilot group that has some FOs with a type and ones that don't. Don't want to be in trouble because I flew with an FO that was supposed to have the type rating and somehow fell through the cracks.
You're gonna be fine. What are you gonna do if an FO shows up without a full PIC type rating in the Saab? Refuse the trip? I doubt it. It's pretty black and white. You do your job and let the Company/FOs worry about their certificates.

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Old 07-16-2013, 05:14 AM
  #3600  
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Originally Posted by EatMyPropwash View Post
this makes me wonder about future captain upgrades... I haven't had honest time to read the whole CBA contract, but...
But what? Take the time to read the important parts. It's your contract, learn it, fly it.

Originally Posted by EatMyPropwash View Post
does it mention about an order to captain upgrade, or is it just on an as needed basis depending on who bids for it? Reason I ask is... the people that have the type (like myself in a few weeks) don't need to do the ATP or PIC ride... it's just a recurrent/transiton type event that won't take nearly as long as someone doing the whole transition course, which saves $$$. So, financially if I'm understanding the captain upgrade right, it'd be cheaper ($$$ wise here) to upgrade someone who already has their type, and just got 1,000hrs 121/135 than someone who has 1,000+ but no type... I know Silver is all about the $$$ pinching.
So, let me get this straight: Given the chance, you'd take advantage of a technicality which would effectively screw over your fellow (senior) pilots just to save Silver some money? That's some dangerous thinking. I'd correct that if I were you.

Luckily, that's not how it will happen. Reference sandrich's post.
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