colonials13

What's the first letter in the company's name?

JohnBurke

Blow the whistle on what, exactly? That he's not being used as a crewmember under 135? That he's not operating the controls? That he's wearing a uniform? That he's manifested as a passenger? Exactly what regulation is violated here? Before you urge someone to cause problems and raise the alarm, you should have a basis on which to stake your counsel. Why's he blowing the whistle, exactly?

"Might not?" Can you cite a regulation that the original poster, or the company has violated? It's not illegal to put a passenger in the front seat. It's not illegal to be a pilot. It's not illegal to wear a uniform. It's not illegal to do any of what the original poster has assured us is "illegal." Remember, however, he knows that "it's a fact."

He's a three hundred hour pilot, not experienced enough yet to know how to dress himself, and he's already raising a stink about things he doesn't understand or know. Imagine where he will be in a year's time. A little knowledge, however poorly informed, is truly a dangerous thing.

JamesNoBrakes

John, this was in the original post:

Not getting to the fact that in some aircraft (but definitely not all), you can't put a passenger in a pilot station seat, as it's contrary to the TCDS or flight manual, it is highly contrary to regulations for an operator to be using an unqualified pilot. The good part is that this guy is asking the question and wants to know. In the eyes of the FAA under the Administrator's new philosophy and rules, he wouldn't be punished for bringing this to light, the whole reason for the new rules is because too many things were never brought up for fear of retaliation. This has changed big time. But that aside, the way the company is operating is absolutely contrary to the regulations. This is the same reason passengers are not allowed to do checklists and perform various functions of aircraft operation. Unless they are trained and qualified for that function under the operator's training program, which would require the 135 checks describe in this thread, it is contrary to regulation.

Awesomebob

To clear it up, I do, in fact, operate the aircraft in the right seat. I seem to be given full SIC responsibilities. I don't just sit there looking pretty, although I think that's part of what the company wants. They just take it too far with what they expect of me.

JB - what's your problem? I have a valid concern and I'm asking for advice. Do FAA rules only apply to 10,000 hour airline pilots?

Awesomebob

Are you an angry person offline?

JohnBurke

You haven't been truthful. Your posts have told two different stories, exactly opposite of one another.

Which is the truth?

Which regulation has the company violated? Cite it. You said you know it for a fact. Give us the fact. Stop tap dancing around it and tell the truth. What regulation has the company violated?

The regulation applies to all aviators. You don't appear to know the regulation, or what applies to you or the company. Money down: say what's been violated.

Which aircraft prohibits a passenger in a pilot seat, per the TCDS or AFM?

No such thing has been identified by the original poster. Is he going to submit now that he's not allowed to sit in the right seat based on a type certificate limitation or aircraft limitation as spelled out in the aircraft flight manual?

You state that the company is operating contrary to the regulation. Cite it. Then demonstrate how the company is in violation, based on the information given thus far.

Would it be 14 CFR 135.113, Passenger Occupancy of a Pilot Seat? Doesn't apply unless the aircraft has a passenger configuration of more than eight.

§135.113 Passenger occupancy of pilot seat.
No certificate holder may operate an aircraft type certificated after October 15, 1971, that has a passenger seating configuration, excluding any pilot seat, of more than eight seats if any person other than the pilot in command, a second in command, a company check airman, or an authorized representative of the Administrator, the National Transportation Safety Board, or the United States Postal Service occupies a pilot seat.

Would it be 135.115, Manipulation of Flight Controls? The original poster hasn't stated that he's manipulating the flight controls. He's cited that the company has asked him to load baggage and fuel the aircraft, neither of which are manipulation of the flight controls. He's since revised his story, again, and now states that he does "full SIC duties," though he doesn't specify what they are. He's made clear in prior posts that he's a passenger in a uniform, and listed that way. Which part of 135.115 does loading baggage or fueling violate? Holding or even reading a checklist? How about if he gives a running commentary on the Grand Canyon to the other passengers, or does a stand-up routine?

§135.115 Manipulation of controls.
No pilot in command may allow any person to manipulate the flight controls of an aircraft during flight conducted under this part, nor may any person manipulate the controls during such flight unless that person is—

(a) A pilot employed by the certificate holder and qualified in the aircraft; or

(b) An authorized safety representative of the Administrator who has the permission of the pilot in command, is qualified in the aircraft, and is checking flight operations.

The fact is that he's a three hundred hour pilot making a lot of noise about nothing, according to his posts thus far. It may not be so much a question about this "professional" needing to elsewhere, as the employer needing to lose at least one employee.

Awesomebob

They are using us as SICs, without training us to be SICs. From what I understand, that is illegal. That's the issue.

Besides that, I don't appreciate your tone. Its not professional. You keep attacking me with these unfounded, childish remarks about me being a 387 hour pilot. Now you suggest I be fired for raising a concern of mine and asking for advice from more experienced people? You are absolutely redicoulous.

And what "noise" am I raising? I have not approached the company at all and won't until I am prepared. That's why I'm here asking, not in front of my CEO.

Now put the FAR\AIM down and relax. Maybe go get a beer if you're not gonna be flying anytime soon.

dupe

Find a school that will pay for your CFI and come back to 'murica. Instruct for a year, then move on with this phase of your life.

JohnBurke

Attacking you? You've stated that you know for a fact that your employer is "forcing" you to do something illegal. I asked you to cite the regulation that's broken. You apparently cannot. Or will not. Your story changes repeatedly. You state on the one hand that you're acting within the regulation by laying out what's going on, then turn around and say it's illegal.

What language is "redicoulous?"

eman

Dude (op), sorry you have to go through this and even worse argue with this JB fellow. We've all been the low time pilot put in a corner and unsure about what to do, afraid to do something and looking for reinforcement. In the end, you stand alone, no one is going to back you. So with that said, have a plan to get out, and talk to the FAA if you feel it's necessary to; follow your gut. If you are correct then kudos, if not, then so be it they won't get in trouble. I wouldn't put anything past a 135. Part of being professional is having the guts to stand up for yourself when you feel exploited, or that you are being put at risk of a violation. CONTRARY to what any says..go with your gut and protect your certificate. If you were over cautious, oh well, you still have a clean record and your certificate. If you were right, oh well, you still have your clean record and certificate.

I dunno JB or what he is like so this isn't meant as an offense to him but he sounds like a die hard management type that will argue someone right back into a corner and give you the mushroom treatment. Part 135 ops are almost always up to something to make ends meet and we are too scared or unsure of ourselves to stand up.

If you have the freedom to go, go! Not worth the headache and time you can't log anyways...


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