mshunter

Opps. Typo! Proof reading takes a back seat when I am irritated.

own nav

It's called being "realistic." And no, I don't believe that what you posted is realistic, maybe in 2007, but not now. Not everyone can have the "path to success" that you've had.

mshunter

It's called having patients and perseverance. Look at companies like Ameriflight, Flight Express, etc. They will hire you with 135 mins. I have a friend, who through networking, got hired to fly 135VFR cargo in Alaska. I have another friend who got hired at Ameriflight with 1350TT and 105 multi because he had two internal recommendations, and his friend was looked past who had 2100tt and 500+ multi. This industry is all about contacts, not what you have on your resume. 9 of 10 times when you see a position posted at another company on one of the internet pay sites, the position has already been filled before the post goes up. And it's all because of networking. PFJ/PFT is just a way for companies to #1: Take advantage of people who don't know any better, and #2: Quench some thirst for some SJS (Shiney Jet Syndrome).

Name me one company that will hire a guy to sit right seat in a Lear/Falcon with 700tt?


Bottom line, you can do it the expensive way or you can do it the easy way.

Expensive way: Go to a PFJ/PFT place and spend $35k for 250hrs of right seat time for an SIC "Type" rating (look at the regs, you don't need an SIC for right seat, just a private pilot).

Easy way: Do some instructing/flying pipe/Glider towing/Banner towing/Traffic watch and build up some hours, meet a few people along the way, earn a paycheck, and move up.

The bottom line is you are still going to have to meet the mins of the job posting, even if you do have 750hrstt and 500 of which you paid to throw gear in a Falcon20. Most companies require 2000TT to be SIC in anything without props, and the same to be PIC in something with props. And it's usually not their requirement, it's the insurance. And flying SIC in something like a Navajo is only going to be a PFT program. Those kinds of airplanes simply don't generate enough profit to afford to pay an SIC, let alone pay the PIC. This myth that some PFJ/PFT will get you there faster is the same as the myth that doing an RJ course is going to get you an airline job.


My boss had to pull strings to get me insured in the airplane, but he got it. Do you think he would have done that for some schmo off the street when he could have easily hired someone who the insurance would have not batted an eye at? I am not any kind of exception ownnav, I am what is happening in the industry RIGHT NOW. It's nothing more than a fact. Would I call it "the path to success" like you have? No, I call it doing what it takes to get a job, IN ANY ENVIRONMENT. Networking works in a good/bad job environment. PFT/PFJ will only work at places that I would rather not work. And when you get there, you'll figure out the same thing.

own nav

You can't have it both ways, MS. Either the time is valuable, and you see EJI FO's as a threat to the industry, or it's not valuable and they're just wasting their money. Which one is it?

mshunter

Both ways? Do we need to go around this bush again? I just re-read my post, and I don't see it as looking like both ways. Am I missing something?

own nav

That's the impression I got, based off your earlier statement.

I think I can see where this is going, and really, comparing a Gulfstream type program to a cargo FO program is really comparing apples and oranges. Guys do the cargo FO program so they can build time without taking anyone's job, yet, it's as if you lump them all into one category, with the ones who obviously are paying for a job by slapping them with the PFT label.

mshunter

Cargo Fo's and 121 FO's, it's all the same. It de-values the workers in the entire profession. It doesn't matter if it takes someones jobs when you start out making less than poverty wages, and thats not what I am worried about anyways.

own nav

You do admit they're not taking anyone's jobs in the cargo FO program, yet somehow it doesn't matter. Nice.

mshunter

Where in my posts do I say it's o.k. to take a cargo FO's job? You completely miss my point. That's not what this is about. This is about PFT/PFJ. If you are refering to something like Airnets FO program, do you honestly think that logging SIC time in a Barron is worth payin any amount of money for? It's a single pilot airplane! What are you getting at. Quit fishing!

own nav

Which cargo FO's job did freightdog1369 take? You know AMF would fly that plane single pilot without him. If you want to argue the legality of logging that time, maybe your friend at Ameriflight can show you where it is in their ops specs. The FAA signed off on it, it's legal.