Ewfflyer

I don't buy it personally. When I instructed, I had 15 students, and only one ever went all the way(He was working at Ford, and retired soon after and got his Comm, then CFI.) The rest of them were in it for fun. I never forced anyone into it etc....

When I first started, yes I used the "list" to call out prospective students and see if we could get them to come back out to the airport, but honestly, I got not a single one of those folks out. The rest were literally walk-in's. I knew ahead of time that it was going to be that way, but I went ahead and called people anyways.

Now the university programs, if they are promising blah blah, this-and-that, then yes it's a scam, but you can't group everyone and every operation into one basket.

mshunter

I'm not trying to argue that the only way is instructing. Go fly pipe, traffic watch, wildlife spotting, banners, something. Just don't hurt the industry as a whole by paying to sit right seat when you could be paid to sit in any seat.

Would you go and pay someone to work in an auto dealership to learn how to sell cars or fix them? No. So why would you do it in aviation? The reason I ask is because I spent 9 years in the auto industry, as an Auto Tech for dealerships. My first year I made about $30k. My last year I made $75k. I started at the bottom, and worked my way up. I never had to pay to work, as a matter of fact, I usually got paid decently to work. The guys that went to WyoTech and UTI made the same dollar starting out and topped out at the same level that I did. There was ZERO benefit from them paying to learn versus learning on the job. See my point now. You gain nothing from PFJ/PFT other than being out a few thousand dollars for time in your logbook that will be usless when all you have is 500hrs, half of which is in 172's and PA44's. You are still useless until you have enough experience to be employable by a 135 operation. And from what I have seen at 121 regional interviews, Your experience doesn't matter as long as you have the numbers they are looking for, so again, the money was wasted. The difference is now you have lowered the bar for starting wage because the companies now know that you have paid for the majority of your time so why should they bother paying you a decent wage.

Burlcfii

First five was just a number. i have sent out multiple resumes and walked in multiple resumes. And MS i have the drive, i want the job, there just arent any in my area. i have excepted the fact that it may take a couple more years of flight instructing on the side to get a job. Especially in these times. I agree with you guys on PTF it has had a very bad effect on the career. Anyway i appreciate everyones opinion.

mshunter

Sounds like it's time for a move. You can still make an impression over the phone. Call up a few places where you wouldn't mind living.

own nav

So, how many of those jobs can you get with under 500 hours?

mshunter

Network and be the guy who got hired with less than posted minimums. Thats how I got my current job. Quit it with the excuses. They wanted more multi than what I had, and I just met the total time. The traffic watch out here hires at 250. The banner tows out here hire at 250 with 25hrs tail wheel.

stbloc

if you have the money go for PFT. I've seen way to many guys twice as far in there careers then the one who went the traditional route. You need to look out for yourself. Everyone here will say your bring the industry down. If you don't do someone else will and will be flying 121 before you.Every industry is paying less because of cheaper labor. In today's environment you need what ever edge you can get so you can rise to the top faster. But I would wait till hiring picks up so you don't end up on the street with no job to transition to when your contract is up. once retirement start accelerating I would head to a PFT program. On the flip side one my not need to do PFT if the great pilot shortage happens that everyone has been waiting for. Botom line is wait 6 month to a year then reevalutae the industry and then make a decision. retirements are starting to happen which will casue regionals to be hiring in masses shortly.

mshunter

You are no different then a SCAB! The only difference is the picket line you cross, no one is able to walk it everyday!

The bolded part is funny. There is, and never will be a pilot shortage, EVER! People have been trying to sell than for the last 40 years! Gawd you guys are clueless!


This thread goes from, "There is too many people and not enough jobs!" to, "Pilot shortage on the horizon, everyone get thei resume ready!" But if there is thousands on the street who are qualified, shoulden't the pilot shortage use those guys up first? Leaving someone who used PFT/PFJ with thier junk in their hand and a huge loan to pay off?

stbloc

Thanks, I take your comments as a compliment. If you feel better calling me a scab because I support anyone that wants to buy a 100 block in a skydiving turboprop, then go a head.

mshunter

You have no clue, and no experince to draw from. It's obvious with your posts. I hate to say in, but you'll probably become another Capt. Renslow, just barely making it through your entire career untill something bad happens. And when you get furloughed from that big shiney jet at a regional making $18k a year living with mom and dad, you'll have no other flying to fall back on, because you won't have any CFI certificates, and all the jump planes are looking for fresh guys with low time so they'll stick around for a while.

Like I said, you just don't get it.