2StgTurbine

I disagree with you. Airlines do want pilots who can work in an automated environment, but not just that. Regional and majors are different worlds. Since this is in the low time section, I assume jsfBoat plans to go to a regional on his way to a major. Regionals like pilots who have experience with glass planes, but that really only helps applicants with a few hundred hours. They would much rather take someone who flew a DC-6 and has 2,000 hours than someone who has 1,500 hours in a G1000 172.

Just because airplanes are becoming more and more automated and more and more decision making gets taken out of the flight deck with each FOM revision does not mean airlines only want autopilot operators. Airlines have invested too much money to have pilots that don’t have the ability to make good decisions. Here is an example.

A crew of autopilot operators as you describe are on runway 01 at DCA and tower tells them to fly 060 after departure. The crew follows those instructions exactly because that is all they remember from their days at the flight academy and brief time instructing for that academy. They bust P56 and cause a media frenzy. Stories run 24 hours a day about how inexperienced those pilots are and how horrible the airline is. Sales drop and the board of directors are very unhappy. The company responds by issuing a new revision to the FOM restricting their pilots from using runway 01 and they pay lots of money to repaint their planes to deflect the bad press.

Now here is what a crew that airlines really want would do. They get the same clearance and depart, but new FO jsfBoat notices there is an unusually strong wind from the east and his experience flying a DC-6 VFR up north tells him they will be blown into P56. The captain who went to Pilot Academy USA, but gained lots of confidence in his decision making abilities flying single pilot IFR for a 135 operator in old broken planes, flies a heading of 075 to get the ground track the controller wants, and jsfBoat informs ATC. They depart the area without a second thought of all the trouble they saved the company because it is just one of the many times they ignored a direct order from ATC, management, or even the FOM if it conflicts with a FAR or safety.

Airlines want pilots who can make decisions like that. If they can find a pilot who can do that and has some experience with glass, even better. Your plan of taking the fast track to the airlines has just as many pitfalls and traps as spending 10 years up north flying old props. Many military fliers don’t get to a major until their mid 30s or 40s. Bush time alone will not get you a job at a major, but it will get you to a regional. The time you get at a regional will get you to an interview at a major, and the stories of your bush flying will make you stick out from the rest and could get you the job. If you wanted to, you could go to a regional and move to a major soon after, but you don’t like the pay or the lifestyle, and that is fine.

There are many people who took the fast track and it got them nowhere but at a regional with a 10 year upgrade. There are others who had some fun building time in unique ways that may have taken a little longer, but got hired by a regional where they upgraded a year later and are now at a major. There are so many variables in this industry, it is impossible to predict what the best path to take is. The only thing you can do is pick a path that you will enjoy.

HercDriver130

Have to disagree Sky... how many interviews have you been on in the past year.... I have quite a few... hell three in just the past month. One was a 747 ACMI Operator, the other a DC-9 on demand cargo operator and the other a Fractional operator. TWO things stuck out, ONE -- all three seemed very concerned that you were VERY aware of the type of flying they did, the schedules they fly, how much time you would be away from home, NONE of them sugar coated what it was like to fly for their company, and TWO -- The seemed to want to gauge if you would fit it with the type of people and culture already in place at their company. Automotons.... not at these places... they want team players, guys who will get along with a crew for extended time on the road, somebody willing to give and take. All three also seemed to put some importance on decision making... and I don't mean the "capt shows up drunk what are you going to do" type questions... more "real world" stuff... putting you in a situation, and evaluating what you would do and how you would do it, continue to destination.....return to point of departure... Not blindly making decisions, but CA's who will use all the resources at their disposal and then make a decision, AND be able to explain why you did what you did. I found the technical portion of all three interviews along with their sim evals to really to get a glimpse of those things. The ACP at one of these places stated "we wouldnt have brought you in if we didnt think you were qualified" so I am not going to insult you with stupid test type questions. At at least two of the three its my personal opinion that ability to adapt to changing situations and to fit in with the company culture was of most importance to them.

oh... and Sky... and really don't think there is a good job out there for you... your expectations (at least in the beginning) are out of line with reality. I mean... in your world you want to make $150k a year to start, work 10 days a month, and only have to fly out and backs!...If I am wrong Sky... tell me exactly what kind of job you want.... and since you have made such a big deal of the past few years about time away from home, please detail that part of your requirement.

2StgTurbine

Also, there are many companies that don't even have glass planes (or if they do, they are still in a regular 6 pack layout), so those companies would look more favorably on someone who has a lot experience with analog gauges as opposed to someone who has only flown glass.

Airhoss

Take it from me, a guy with tons of bush time, round motor time and Smoke Jumper time, quite a bit more than you I'd wager. You are WRONG and you REFUSE to listen as I've previously noted. You did one, 1, uno season, 3 months as a Smoke Jumper F/O correct? Get over yourself dude.

SkyHigh

I flew for the CASA for six months before I was hired to fly for a learjet operator. Before that I spent seven years living in Alaska as a flight instructor and bush pilot. I lived in several remote villages during my time as a part 135 airtaxi pilot.

Your information is old. I bet that most who are at the legacy airlines today could not get hired in the current climate with the resume's they had back then.

1000 turbine PIC minimum to apply. Part 121 jet PIC to be most competitive plus multiple internal recommendations and a type rating in some cases. Those things are not commonly found in the bush. A DC6 does not quality nor does it build the kind of resume that would catch the eye of a legacy airline.

Skyhigh

SkyHigh

Herc,

You are right. I do not want to fly for a third rate wide body airline that could hold me hostage in the third world for weeks or months. I am not interested in making 60K to fly a smokey old jet to places I never wanted to see in the first place.

I do not like being a slave to a heartless regional that strives to make my life unbearable so that they can have a leg up at out next contract meeting. So yes I need to make a living. I need to have a life. If contemporary aviation is about selling everything you hold dear to your employer then yes there is not job for me.

I need to be well compensated, have a measure of control over my life and to hold at least some respect from my employer. Flying was not like this when I started. The pilots I knew growing up lead admirable lives. I still hold those expectations.

Skyhigh

SkyHigh

Like I have said. I would be the first to welcome a change in the hiring practices of legacy airlines but I stand my my original point. The pursuit of adventure flying does little for the resume and can divert a pilot into a region of aviation where it is difficult to escape from.

Piston seaplane time is nice but it does nothing to help you get the interview in the first place. It takes 1000 hours minimum of pilot in command time in turbine aircraft that require a type rating just to be able to apply. To get hired you will be up against guys who have been flying left seat in a CRJ for thousands of hours and who possibly have an uncle who is a check airman with the company.

In regards to UAL and AA it is a moot question since it has been close to ten years since they last hired anybody. Who knows what their hiring criteria will be.

Skyhigh

USMCFLYR

And you have been proven wrong numerous times in this thread alone.
But there is some admiration of you for sticking with a losing argument like a fearless Captain going down with his sinking ship.
BRAVO!

USMCFLYR

SkyHigh

USMCFLYR,

It seems ironic to me that those who are largely in opposition really do not have any recent experience with the subject but I guess we will have to disagree.

Try getting hired with DAL, SWA or FedEx with the crown jewel in your resume being DC-6 time.

Skyhigh

DeadHead

I know of 4 former DC-6 pilots at DAL, and I'm sure that are many more.

Your arguments and talking points are full of holes.