brocklee9000

Granted, the $60K salary is more for the advanced positions (two year CFI, program mangers, check airman, king air instructors, etc). But still they pay can be pretty good. As just a CFI/CFII I'm getting $30/hr and billing 30-40 hours a week. The billed hours aren't all from flight time, but the pay is pretty good and I'm actually making a dent in student loans and saving a little bit.

FlyingAlly

Everything is great here at Desert Sand Leasing Co.
I work when I want to work and get paid the same regardless of the hours I fly in a year. I am respected as a pilot, the maintenance is top notch, the owner knows every one of his pilots by name. The pilots that I work with share my sentiments. I had a "phone interview" with SDAZ and was not impressed by their lack of professionalism. I plan to keep working at Desert Sand on my days off at the airlines. They are a great group of people.

ssyc

[QUOTE=JohnBurke;2594206]Who made you fly?

What type of gun did they put to your head to force you to sign that contract? Take your family hostage? Were you waterboarded? Or simply willing to sign on the line when you couldn't shake the image of turbine time instead of riding around the pattern with students?

Did that make you fly?[/QUOTE

Slightly dramatic response.

Western Global really needs to pick up some more freight contracts so that you spend more time flying and less time bullying younger pilots behind the mask of a computer monitor.

No one forced anyone to fly. Again you continue to glaze over the fact that everyone on here has admitted that twin turbine PIC time was a major draw. Along with that draw was the company telling the pilots that they were independent contractors but as soon as training was done and contracts were signed the owners and chief pilot changed their tune completely. They started telling us that we had to submit time off requests and that no request was guaranteed.

Meanwhile the owners were taking their Razors with 3 inch Skydive Arizona stickers hidden on them (that way they were “company vehicles”) to Moab, flying the king air to Springervlle for breakfast, and flying the helicopter home 10 miles to change clothes. Then there is the chief pilot who hated to fly so instead of the chief pilot flying more than three times a month many of us were working 6 or 7 days a week.

They didn’t hold up their end of the deal either. And before you go off saying that I’m wrong just remember that you spent all of your time in the hangar with the very occasional two or three flights with the R&D groups. You were never a full time pilot and don’t have the slightest clue of what we all went through and dealt with. Not all of us had the luxury of writing our schedule and leaving for the summer to fight fires and come and go as we pleased.

ssyc

That’s awesome! It’s good to know that this is an isolated problem with Skydive Arizona and not all drop zones.

JohnBurke

Interesting. Just a few posts up, we read flyboy 94 stating referencing the fleet of aircraft "they made us fly." Again, who put the gun to his head and made him fly? Or forced him to sign a contract? Made to fly?

Bull****. Wimpy, whiny kids who were more than happy to rub the shiny jet syndrome from their sealed eyelids long enough to sign on the dotted line, yet who ran mewling and crying for the far corners of the earth the moment they had logged the necessary time. The same poster prattles on about not getting what he wanted; he agreed to a wage, begged for more and didn't get it, and has a case of sour grapes. Did he not know the wage? If not, why not, and whose fault is that? Pilot in command: don't pass the damn buck. Own the buck. All of it. Don't attempt to cry and pawn the ownership off on someone else.

Cry, cry a river. Did you go there to sunbathe? To snap selfies for your millennial facebook page, or to fly the ******* airplane?

If the business has a business to run, and they do, you couldn't possibly be so idiotic as to think that after signing a contract and commitment, you'd just pick and choose whatever days off you wanted, could you? Of course the business requires that days off be arranged.

You're another poster here who has only a few posts to his name...all the whiners have signed on that way. Interesting. Very common thread, whether multiples doing this, or just one or two under different names...all singing the same tune. You accepted a job; people with honor could have done it with a handshake and been true to their word, but the whiners among you have shown enough dishonor that a contract was found to be required, and many of you didn't bother to honor it...and here you are whining about the work after you'd signed it. No surprise at all.

A group of no-time, know-nothings with wet ink on their certificate got multi engine turbine time right off the bat, a kick start to the shiny jet of their choice at the airlines, and precious little commitment, and they made a living while doing it (if you think that's low pay, it's evidence as to just how millennial you really are, and just how ignorant you are of the industry at large). They demanded more, didn't get it, and here's the result. Nt at all surprising. Not only whining about the pay, but about the amount of flying you had to do. What caliber was the gun against your own head that forced you to do these things, exactly?

Your'e upset about how the owners spend their money, are you? Your'e upset about what they do with their time? It's their company. Not yours. You can do what you please when you own your own company. You don't own your own company. You didn't own the company for whom you worked (and yes, you did work for them, if you were paid, and you performed work for them, regardless of the way your tax was scheduled).

Perhaps you want the chief pilot's job. Perhaps you'd rather be doing that? What in the hell business is it of yours what the chief pilot does with his or her time? Whether the chief pilot flies, stays in the office, or does anything else? It's not your job. It's not your say.

The popular term for you, and others like you here, is "butt hurt." Sour grapes.

I happen to work for a gentleman who buys expensive equipment each year; very nice cars and trucks and other things. I commented on his truck once, and he replied "thanks, you bought it for me." I appreciated his view; I did buy it for him doing a very demanding and at times dangerous job in a professional manner; the value of the flying I did paid for my salary, his truck, and a lot of other things. That's how a business works. And no, I don't work for the DZ, and may not be who you think.

I don't care what my employer owns. I worked for an employer with a very expensive hobby. My job existed to support his hobby. We all knew it. So what? Irrelevant. Not my money; I got paid for the job I did, and I got paid at the rate I agreed. He got his profit, and he spent it as he saw fit. I didn't ask him where he went, what he did, or how he spent his time, and it wasn't my business or my concern.

I've worked for a lot of chief pilots. I don't recall EVER wondering what they did with their time, faulting them for the amount of flying that they did or didn't do, or questioning their salary, choice of toys or equipment, hobbies, or even lifestyle. That's not my job, you see. As a professional, I don't stick my nose where it does not belong. When you prattle on about the vacations that the owner of a company might take, or the amount of flying that the chief pilot might do, you're overstepping your bounds by a large margin. None of your damn business.

[QUOTE=ssyc;2595411]So you and the other three-post wonders keep saying.

They forced you to be a flight instructor; several have said that. Again, how about a description of the gun they put to your head that made you do that.

Forced to flight instruct as a low time pilot. Cry, cry some more. You understand that most flight instructors start off at 250 hours, right? So not unusual at all for a low time pilot to be teaching others.

Didn't have a flight instructor certificate, yet forced to instruct...this is illegal, somehow? Whose logbook did you endorse? No one? Then absence of a flight instructor certificate is irrelevant, isn't it?

Didn't sign up to teach other pilots? Well then...it seems that you're willing to sign to get the flight time, assuage that painful shiny jet syndrome, and yet you want to pick and choose what you'll do. Maybe you'll say that you only fly jumpers who wear pink, or only fly on days with an R in them...but it doesn't work that way. I don't get to choose what countries I fly to, or necessarily what goes on my aircraft.

You don't get to choose the experience level of those assigned to fly with you. The job has to be done, and if you agree to do the job then suck it up and do it. Instead of bellyaching and *****ing about wanting more money than you agreed to, instead of *****ing about the toys the owner owns, instead of *****ing about the amount of flying your superior and supervisor does, you might just buckle down and do YOUR job.

Those of you who ran out on your contracts and ended up being sued, the bottom line is that you're crying over the milk you spilled, and though you are apparently incapable of being honest with yourselves: You deserve it.

azsdpilot

Now before I get attacked on here - yes this is my first post. Yes I just signed up today. And yes, my voice and my opinion is just as valuable as someone with over 2,000 posts. Now that we got that out of the way...


This forum went south really quick. I have been reading the posts the past couple of weeks and clearly some sensitive spots have been poked on multiple sides but it really is getting out of hand.

Regardless of what all of our opinions are there needs to be a restoration of civility on here. To state facts and opinions is one thing but to lie and attack is entirely different. As a previous pilot at Skydive Arizona I can tell you that the topics that have been discussed on here have some truth to them and also some emotional sensationalism to them as well.

I can personally witness that the chief pilot was in a hard spot and I don't envy her job at all. She had to deal with the demands of the owners while also working to be the pilots advocate as well and sometimes it didn't always work out the way everyone wanted. But thats life and it will be that way anywhere you go. I can attest that there were times that no matter how hard she wanted to help the pilots out, the owners had other other projects for her to do. She was a hard worker and did whatever she could do to accommodate the pilots schedule and requests whenever it was possible. A rather thankless job that I for one would never want.

The flying was challenging but fun, the hours were crazy sometimes but the co-workers made it all worth it. Some of the best memories I have in aviation are with the fellow pilots of Skydive Arizona. We all have our view of how certain events transpired but my request would be that we all take a few breathes and return to civility on here.

No one on here is exempt either. There is far too much name calling and swearing (using the * doesn't relinquish us from the nature of the word either). Everyone needs to take a few steps back from the keyboard and chill out. Yes, John - including you. I know who you truly are and if you want the proof feel free to send me a message and I will reply. I have worked with you and am really surprised at the amount of anger in the last post. A lot of the comments on here have been dumb and emotional but it doesn't justify the remarks on your last post.

We all can do better.

There are definitely things that need to be addressed at Skydive Arizona that would make it better for everyone but flying skydivers can also be a lot of fun. The twin otter and Skyvan are both fantastic machines and fun to fly. Everywhere has their issues and their problems but just as the pilots wouldn't have a job without the owners,the owners wouldn't have a company without the pilots to fly the planes. Just as stated on the previous thread - the employees working are the ones buying the owners truck, and the owners paying the pilots and other employees are how the employees pay for their vehicles as well.

The bad days and frustrations will eventually escape our memories and what will remain are the good times we had flying the planes and working with friends. Hell, I look back on the days that I was most frustrated and laugh at most of it now. Instructors can talk about the thousands of traffic patterns they did but we get to talk about the jumpers that needed a lot more practice so that they didn't land miles away from where they planned to, the jumpers that could land on a dime if they had to, and the jumpers that would give fist bumps, high fives, and candy before jumping out of the plane. (That is of course right before they decided to leave a smelly present before exiting)

Lets be a little bit nicer.

PT6 Flyer

azsdpilot, What is the status of Skydive Arizona now? Are they cancelling flights because they don't have enough pilots?

azsdpilot

For the past 5 months they have been hiring and training pilots. They have a great group of pilots there right now that include some guys that aren't using it as time building for the airlines so hopefully that helps their attrition rate over the next few years. The fact that it is turbine time and productive flying due to the good weather year round helps keep prospective pilots interested. Just like flight schools, and airlines - skydive Arizona will have to make some changes here and there due to the pilot shortage.

urp99

Thank you.

TaylorPilot

If you want to dictate their hours then withhold their taxes, issue a W2, and pay their FICA. You can't have it both ways. I'd never even heard of these guys until this, but I have worked with guys like that. They think because they cut you a check they own you, they come and go as they please, and only show up to complain then leave. Crappy pay and working people like dogs, then sit around and complain about how its hard to find good help and all these entitled Millennials don't have a work ethic. No, the reality is they are only concerned with themselves and would take the shirt off your back if they thought they could get away with it. Here is an idea, show up, work harder than anyone else there (aka "set the tone"), pay your employees atleast market rate, and list them on the payroll as an employee because that is what you are treating them as. Then you won't need some silly contract that is there just to scare some 19 year old kid who doesn't know any better. I wonder what the IRS would say about their practices. From what I have seen they take that W2 vs 1099 thing pretty seriously.

Also, low number poster here! Although I don't know what that has to do with anything. It just keeps getting thrown around as if it has any relation to the poster's ability to form an argument.