JohnBurke

I don't work for skydive az, but nice try.

MaxMar

His point was he believed your attitude is in line with SDAZ's management, and if they didn't like the sound of you they wouldn't like SDAZ.

JohnBurke

I know the owners of the DZ; I'm quite certain that they don't sound like me. I don't speak for them. I've never heard them say what I said above. My comments are my own, not theirs. They can speak for themselves.

I also know, as stated above, that the comments to which I responded, were uninformed, and untrue.

I do not now work for skydive az, nor did I work for skydive az. I did include several random specific details to make clear that I was aware of the details, rather than passing along third hand information.

As for a bunch of low-time pilots banding together to demand more money; they knew the pay when they signed the contract, did they not?

I'm not against asking for a raise; let them do as they wish. There's no ground to whine when the raise doesn't come, however, as they'd already entered into the agreement with full knowledge. For low-time pilots, they were rapidly building twin turbine time and making better pay than they'd have had flight instructing during the same period.

ConSafo

I'm not so sure making more than a flight instructor is the case. I am not affiliated with sdaz in any way but I do know a pilot who worked there. His 2017 1099 read approximately 25k before taxes. He flew over 1000 hours but his overall time investment was much greater.

There is no doubt it is an excellent time building opportunity however if you factor in the cost of commuting plus other time opportunity cost lost (having a second job would not be possible) it is very difficult to provide for a family. It is certainly a young pilots game. One of the reasons I chose not to apply.

Mommysays

What is interesting to me, not sure if this is the case here, but many of these skydiving companies require you to be an independent contractor. IF you are an independent contractor YOU have a flat rate pay, you can "up" the price for your services. What you should have done is demand a higher payment for your services. If they didn't want to pay you more than you were asking, wouldn't they have had to terminate your contract?

The IRS states, "You are not an independent contractor if you perform services that can be controlled by an employer"

After reading this thread it would seem that many need to know their rights and know when they're being treated as an employee.

dera

Not sure which I dislike more. People who break training contracts and complain when company comes after them, of companies that hire employees as 1099 but who are not real contractors.
Both are slimy in a way.

ssyc

I like this game!

After reading this post I was going to hop back on and talk about integrity again but then I realized that we're playing a fun little word game. Technically no one works for Skydive AZ. If you have anything to do with the fun jump side of things you work for Para Drop Corp, if you have anything to do with the military side of things you work for Airborne Support Group, and if you did any mechanic work you worked for Aerospecialists. Hell, even the office furniture was owned by a separate entity. I suppose you are right - you didnt work for skydive AZ but if we are going along your route of thinking then neither did any of the other pilots on here. Isnt this game fun?!?! So it seems as though you were working for Aerospecialists and Airborne Support Group. But you're right - you didnt work for Skydive AZ.

That alone should be a red flag. I guess the best way to protect yourself from getting taken to the cleaners when it all hits the fan is to divide all of your assets up into a dozen separate companies. If anyone has any doubts - do a search on the registration of the Otters and Skyvans and see just how many shell companies they have been registered to. I'll give you a hint - if the company has anything to do with Arizona or Montana its all the same. Keep moving the assets around to make it hard to track and pin down. Tricky tricky.

And since we are on a crusade to air out the truth lets stop the lies about losing the DOD contract for a few months as well. We're back to that word game - Mr. "Burke" states that it wasnt lost to bad maintenance so lets give him that. It was lost the incomplete and inaccurate maintenance records. When the DOD shows up on site and performs an audit and finds that your maintenance records arent accurate and incomplete that is a good sign that your maintenance hasnt been done right. Once again - this word game keeps popping up.

Now before you go off again about all your connections with people at SDAZ just remember that youre not the only one. We all have connections and sources that are keeping us up to date and they arent the pilots. All the pilots I know are gone and somehow I keep getting all the same information you are. Its crazy that when you dont treat your employees right they have no problem venting their frustrations. I have photos, I have letters, I have all the evidence I need to back up my claims so tread lightly when you act like the only one that knows whats going on there. We weren't in the hangar kissing up to the bosses all day between flying one or two loads of the research and development teams (Before you ****ed them off and they requested you never be their pilot again).

Mommysays

ehh, whatever makes the "slimy" company money right? They take advantage of these young pilots, bullying them into these contracts and giving them all these demands and rules as if they are employees and wanna slap the word independent contractor on their documentation for tax purposes? SHAME. I commend these young pilots for getting out of what sounds to be a very manipulated dishonest situation. It's atrocious that such company take advantage of these people. Welcome to the world.

ConSafo

It's a tough situation for sure. I'm sure during the lost decade sdaz had no problem staffing well qualified pilots. In fact my guess is it was extremely lucrative for them. Jobs were hard to come by and any operation offering turbine time probably meant they had pilots lining up and maybe even offering to fly for nothing. I've heard stories that ownership actually believes pilots should be paying to operate sdaz aircraft, but that's just heresay. There seems to be several simple solutions to the problem but my guess is the problem will probably sort itself out on a more reactive than proactive basis.

dera

The "young pilots" are grown up professionals, at least that's what they're supposed to be. Don't sign a contract you are not happy with.
Both are equally slimy in this situation. "very manipulated dishonest situation", I'm pretty sure they knew 100% what the contract said before signing it, but the words "multi turbine PIC" prevented them from thinking clearly.

Clearly a scumbag operator. But I don't give much credit to the pilots who break a contract and then complain when company comes after them for it.
"bullying them", come on. Grow a pair, you're a pilot. Say no, go elsewhere. It's not 2008 any more, jobs are everywhere.

I'm working for a great company at the moment. I signed a contract, and I plan to work it. If something happens and I can't, I pay my share. It's not hard.