Yumyum

Or you can save yourself 50 plus grand and go to one of the AA regionals. In 5-7 years you will have a mainline job and less debt. One thing everyone needs to consider is retirements. The entire flow thing has been a roller coaster for the last 15 years, however things are drastically changing. Present day flow is a much bigger deal than the past, strictly due to the retirements. It's only going to get better.

Yumyum

I agree with you ☝️....completely different opinion about a degree and flow these days. There are plenty Eagle/Envoy guys flowing in the coming months without degrees.

HeyOneTaco

Before everyone gets a false hope on how quick it is, here's an actual hire date and flow time...a current FO at PSA hired in 2015 won't flow to AA until 2030. The fine print for these flows is the killer.

Yumyum

Well I know for a fact that's not true at Envoy. PSA could be different.

HighFlight

And here's the flip side of the coin for all of those giving advice to people without a degree: What happens to them if they DO go to an AA WO, with the flow in their back pocket, thinking they can flow in 6 years, and in 3 years, the music stops? They are furloughed. Now they not only have no job, but because they listened to the lazy folks who just want to squeak by without doing their due diligence and have no degree, they also have reduced options as they find themselves suddenly needing to make a career change with no degree.

What then?

No, I say ALWAYS strive for that degree. Take one or two classes per semester in your current job, or even as an FO, and make an effort to get your degree. Yes, it will cost you. Yes, it will be a sacrifice. I did it, many others have, and so can you. Yes, I have a little less money now than I would have if I didn't so it. But I also have much higher earning potential. And I am also not saddled with AA as my only future legacy option. Or the airlines in general.

Jet Jockey 00

Piedmont has a flow back so you get to come back and keep your seniority number.

However, I agree with getting a degree even though it's not required. You could lose your medical and need to get another job so having a degree is always an asset.

idlethrust

Psa has almost 3x the number of pilots pdt has.That's why.
You will flow years sooner at pdt than psa.Its a no brainer

HighFlight

Obviously, you've never taken online college courses. A term is typically not the same length as a typical semester at a university. Plus, not everyone is starting off a ground zero with college credits. Perhaps some started going to school, life got in the way, and now they want to improve their situation in life. And they have the time, as well as the maturity, to make it happen, whereas 5 years ago they didn't.

But go ahead, preach putting all your faith in a flow... one that can go away tomorrow, with no contract violation, and then after waiting for years, you suddenly have - NOTHING. No degree, no job at a legacy, nada. But of course, there is no way that can happen, right? I mean, look at the past 15 years. How many regional pilots were counting on being at a legacy airline many years ago? I know of at least three...

Nothing wrong with having a flow in your back pocket. But anyone who uses it as their go-to option is a fool. Anyone who thinks they will be at a legacy in 3 years without having a degree; they may be right. Or, they may be wrong. Personally, I'd rather have a degree and be wrong than just be out of a job. I'd prefer to be smart than to be lucky. But... that's just me. To each his/her own. ]

A college degree is just a waste of time and money. Until it becomes a requirement to advance.

HighFlight

Ok, so we agree that getting a degree should be your first goal. A flow is a backup plan. Maybe I misunderstood your post. Yes, a degree takes a significant amount of time, both in credit hours and in dedication.

Taking 1 or two classes at a time, you can focus more, and most get better grades because of this. Some online courses are compressed, so the timeline is shorter. Doesn't mean you learn less, or that you can "blow off" classes like you did at a university and still be fine.

And while this may not be the case today, who knows if a degree will be required at all legacies in 3-5 years? Maybe not. But if YOU were on the HR panel, deciding on whom you elected to hire - would you lend more credence to the guy who flew planes for 5 years and waited for the goose to lay a golden egg, or the applicant who flew planes for 5 years while at the same time working towards his degree? One which he may not have achieved yet, but he strived for in the face of adversity, while supporting a family, etc?

At the end of the day, not many jobs require a degree because the applicants are any smarter or more capable than those without a degree - rather, it shows dedication, drive, and a will to get ahead. All traits that any employer would want.

You're right saying that someone starting out with zero credit today, and only taking 3-6 classes per year will not end up with a degree in a timely fashion. But at the same time, one needs to weigh a seniority number against the time lost by "getting a degree first, then applying". In a perfect world, everyone would have a degree by the time they are 22. But bear in mind many of the folks on APC are over 30, 40, 50, and haven't finished their degrees. BIG difference between a 40-yr old starting in this industry and a 21-yr old. I would definitely agree with your "get the degree first" with the young kids. Alas, not all of us are so young.

BTW, I am proud of you completing your degree first. You are like the son I never had! (Said in my best former-president voice).