Medical history questions
04-11-2019, 07:39 AM
#11
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,275
Originally Posted by Excargodog
If you still require meds to resolve the depression it’s a little more tricky although even that is not necessarily an insurmountable issue for pilots who are already heavily invested in an aviation career.
See this:
Medical Never Submitted
If the problem is chronic, recurrent, or severe, you might not want to initiate such an investment though.
See this:
Medical Never Submitted
If the problem is chronic, recurrent, or severe, you might not want to initiate such an investment though.
The FAA in good faith a few years ago decided to allow pilots to *potentially* fly while taking some meds for depression.
Unfortunately, shortly after the rule change, the germanwings suicide crash cast a very long shadow on pilot mental health issues.
Since then the FAA has been (somewhat understandably) very, very leery of approving pilots to fly on meds. I am led to believe that the sum total of pilots approved by the FAA to date can be counted on the fingers of one hand.
So I wouldn't plan on a career with meds. Even if you get approved, that's only good for six months, maybe less and there's NO guarantee the policy won't change for the worse at any moment.
04-11-2019, 09:42 PM
#12
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2019
Posts: 5
I've never taken any meds for the depression, so that's a non-issue. I have a meeting with my therapist next week. Things have already been slowing down frequency wise for the appointments since he feels I've been doing better. This just gives me a reason to wrap it up sooner rather than later.
I did take my discovery flight the other day, and it was less than great. I got a little nauseated because the weather/winds were pretty bad. We couldn't break 2000' and I didn't even get to fly. I was really discouraged with the nausea feeling until I found out both my girlfriend (roller coaster fan) and brother-in-law were nausea too.
I'm planning on taking another Discovery flight or two to see how that goes.
By then I'll have then meet with my therapist and can see what he thinks is the best course of action. With his recommendation to hopefully discontinue treatment, I can then contact one of the consulting firms before filling out my medical. Then have a brief chat with the AME before submitting the paperwork and get my second class. Or would first class be better even though I'm not going for an ATP?
Thanks for all the help.
And I had misread earlier about my fainting incident and I will be mentioning that on the medical forms. As I see it, it was a one time isolated incident that hasn't reoccurred in almost 20 years.
I did take my discovery flight the other day, and it was less than great. I got a little nauseated because the weather/winds were pretty bad. We couldn't break 2000' and I didn't even get to fly. I was really discouraged with the nausea feeling until I found out both my girlfriend (roller coaster fan) and brother-in-law were nausea too.
I'm planning on taking another Discovery flight or two to see how that goes.
By then I'll have then meet with my therapist and can see what he thinks is the best course of action. With his recommendation to hopefully discontinue treatment, I can then contact one of the consulting firms before filling out my medical. Then have a brief chat with the AME before submitting the paperwork and get my second class. Or would first class be better even though I'm not going for an ATP?
Thanks for all the help.
And I had misread earlier about my fainting incident and I will be mentioning that on the medical forms. As I see it, it was a one time isolated incident that hasn't reoccurred in almost 20 years.
04-11-2019, 10:40 PM
#13
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,021
Originally Posted by Excargodog
All true. But lots of people will meet criteria for a depression SOMETIME in their life, During 2013–2016, 8.1% of American adults aged 20 and over had depression in a given 2-week period.
Regarding loss of consciousness; explained loss of consciousness is not hard to work around: unexplained loss of consciousness is another matter, and depending on circumstance, can trig a fecal storm of epic proportions and expense.
Cop not, sayeth the spirit of AME, to that which one need not cop. I don't know about you, but I can't remember what I had for breakfast, let alone if I lay down, rolled over, and possibly went to sleep 20 years ago. Can you? Undiagnosed, unrecorded, shrouded in the mists of time...do you want to open a can of worms that may not exist?
04-12-2019, 06:53 AM
#14
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,501
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
It would be unreasonable to suggest that such a significant number were actually diagnosed with depression; assertion that 8.1% experienced depression in a short term period would be a statistical guess. This is important in context as one does not report such a diagnosis, if it hasn't been made. One may feel bummed out, which is not the same as depression; a diagnosis of depression is another matter.
Major Depressive Disorder
The specific DSM-5 criteria for major depressive disorder are outlined below.
At least 5 of the following symptoms have to have been present during the same 2-week period (and at least 1 of the symptoms must be diminished interest/pleasure or depressed mood) [2] :
Depressed mood: For children and adolescents, this can also be an irritable mood
Diminished interest or loss of pleasure in almost all activities (anhedonia)
Significant weight change or appetite disturbance: For children, this can be failure to achieve expected weight gain
Sleep disturbance (insomnia or hypersomnia)
Psychomotor agitation or retardation
Fatigue or loss of energy
Feelings of worthlessness
Diminished ability to think or concentrate; indecisiveness
Recurrent thoughts of death, recurrent suicidal ideation without a specific plan, or a suicide attempt or specific plan for committing suicide
The symptoms cause significant distress or impairment in social, occupational or other important areas of functioning.
The symptoms are not attributable to the physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or another medical condition.
The disturbance is not better explained by a persistent schizoaffective disorder, schizophrenia, delusional disorder, or other specified or unspecified schizophrenia spectrum and other psychotic disorders
There has never been a manic episode or a hypomanic episode
Depressive disorders can be rated as mild, moderate, or severe. The disorder can also occur with psychotic symptoms, which can be mood congruent or incongruent. Depressive disorders can be determined to be in full or partial remission
The specific DSM-5 criteria for major depressive disorder are outlined below.
At least 5 of the following symptoms have to have been present during the same 2-week period (and at least 1 of the symptoms must be diminished interest/pleasure or depressed mood) [2] :
Depressed mood: For children and adolescents, this can also be an irritable mood
Diminished interest or loss of pleasure in almost all activities (anhedonia)
Significant weight change or appetite disturbance: For children, this can be failure to achieve expected weight gain
Sleep disturbance (insomnia or hypersomnia)
Psychomotor agitation or retardation
Fatigue or loss of energy
Feelings of worthlessness
Diminished ability to think or concentrate; indecisiveness
Recurrent thoughts of death, recurrent suicidal ideation without a specific plan, or a suicide attempt or specific plan for committing suicide
The symptoms cause significant distress or impairment in social, occupational or other important areas of functioning.
The symptoms are not attributable to the physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or another medical condition.
The disturbance is not better explained by a persistent schizoaffective disorder, schizophrenia, delusional disorder, or other specified or unspecified schizophrenia spectrum and other psychotic disorders
There has never been a manic episode or a hypomanic episode
Depressive disorders can be rated as mild, moderate, or severe. The disorder can also occur with psychotic symptoms, which can be mood congruent or incongruent. Depressive disorders can be determined to be in full or partial remission
04-12-2019, 08:53 AM
#15
All is fine at .79
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Paahlot
Posts: 4,083
Here’s the thing, what is causing your depression?
Lost a parent, going bald, obesity, hating where you live, your job sucks or just in general life’s not fair to you?
No clear cause would concern me, a clear cause you can work on.
Be careful you’re trying to “escape” by suddenly starting something you’ve been idealizing.
The motion sickness is normal and perfectly acceptable at this stage.
See if you are controlling a machine your brain has decided what it will do ( left turn right turn, brake, accelerate) and basically given your vestibular organs an advance ‘warning’ .
When you are not the one controlling the machine you’re a fraction of a second behind what’s happening as your body is responding to it rather then anticipating.
This is what causes motion sickness.
What aggravates it are things like no discernible horizon, poor visibility and light turbulence.
An instructor should take this into account.
I also wouldn’t do a discovery flight with other passengers, just you and the instructor.
Lost a parent, going bald, obesity, hating where you live, your job sucks or just in general life’s not fair to you?
No clear cause would concern me, a clear cause you can work on.
Be careful you’re trying to “escape” by suddenly starting something you’ve been idealizing.
The motion sickness is normal and perfectly acceptable at this stage.
See if you are controlling a machine your brain has decided what it will do ( left turn right turn, brake, accelerate) and basically given your vestibular organs an advance ‘warning’ .
When you are not the one controlling the machine you’re a fraction of a second behind what’s happening as your body is responding to it rather then anticipating.
This is what causes motion sickness.
What aggravates it are things like no discernible horizon, poor visibility and light turbulence.
An instructor should take this into account.
I also wouldn’t do a discovery flight with other passengers, just you and the instructor.
04-12-2019, 10:16 AM
#16
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,021
Originally Posted by Excargodog
Didn’t say DIAGNOSED, they MET THE CRITERIA FOR DIAGNOSIS. Which may in fact mean that the criteria are far too lenient but these criteria are determined by the DSM which is determined by the OPINIONS of the American Psychiatric Association as put forward in the DSM, currently the DSM fifth edition.
If one has been diagnosed with the condition, then by all means report it.
There is no metric which asks if the applicant has ever met the criteria as spelled out in the DSM. How would the applicant know? The applicant isn't expected to stipulate to a condition for which he isn't qualified to diagnose.
04-12-2019, 10:40 AM
#17
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,501
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
The medical certificate doens't require that.
If one has been diagnosed with the condition, then by all means report it.
There is no metric which asks if the applicant has ever met the criteria as spelled out in the DSM. How would the applicant know? The applicant isn't expected to stipulate to a condition for which he isn't qualified to diagnose.
If one has been diagnosed with the condition, then by all means report it.
There is no metric which asks if the applicant has ever met the criteria as spelled out in the DSM. How would the applicant know? The applicant isn't expected to stipulate to a condition for which he isn't qualified to diagnose.
Older medical criteria separated “exogenous” depression (my dog died, my child is sick, my spouse is cheating on me) from “endogenous” depression (nothing wrong happening in my life but I still feel like absolute cr@p) and considered the former sort of normal and only diagnosed the latter. But not anymore.
The idea is that if you truly have a psych situation you are unable to deal with constructively, by all means see a shrink. But if you go crying to a shrink (or sometimes even your local doc) the way a lot of people vent here on APC you may indeed be diagnosed as having a depression, with all the subsequent FAA medical issues.
04-15-2019, 03:33 PM
#18
Movin’ on up
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 58
Even if an AME approves you, your application for a medical certificate can be flagged for review. Definitely do the consultation as advised by a previous poster. If an AME approves you, do not start flight lessons until you are sure your application didn’t have to get reviewed. They will send you a letter in the mail about a month after your AME appointment. It might not hurt to get a second opinion from another doctor about your diagnoses. Depression is overly diagnosed in our society. Also, google FAA approved medications. There are a lot that you can’t fly on, or will be automatically disqualifying for a medical. Make sure you know your chances and get all the documents that will help support your case BEFORE you go to the AME. As tempting as it might be to lie, don’t. The penalty for perjury is severe. Things have a way of coming out into the open.
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