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chrisreedrules 09-08-2018 11:42 AM


Originally Posted by Aero757 (Post 2670669)
Anyone can say that effort and study were not done to just get rid of the problem but that wasn't the problem, lack of care in management is where the problem is. Most people I know who are captains in the Majors said not having a partner is a set up to fail, why would they say make sure you have a partner for success. All instructors all said why don't you have a partner. If it wasn't important why would they even ask that question. They need to have a better plan earlier on about how to deal with this situation and make it known to the whole class as well and the manager to address this situation immediately. Working in any job is to be a team effort and not want to see anyone fail due to lack of effort on a manager that was notified many times and did nothing to help but take the easy way out.

People who had partners can easily say this but if it were to happen to them it might not have been a good outcome as well.

It is a proven statistic that working with a partner from the beginning will be more successful than not and everyone in this industry knows that, they just do not want to admit its true and they can't be wrong.

If you want to pass you’ll do what it takes to pass. Partner or no partner. Statistics or not.

Aero757 09-08-2018 12:25 PM

With that comment, you cannot relate. If that was true, then the airlines should not require partners for training. Was told if you do not have a partner by Sims a person will fail. So why would a person want to go into SIMS without a partner and fail. Bottom line everyone should get an equal chance with all the same tools. Which was not given.....

Malcolm Tent 09-08-2018 12:42 PM


Originally Posted by chrisreedrules (Post 2670705)
If you want to pass you’ll do what it takes to pass. Partner or no partner. Statistics or not.

The range of experience among new hires is significant and despite the best efforts of the trainee and the training department some fail to complete training. I would hope the training department and hiring department do some analysis in an attempt to minimize attrition through improved screening during the hiring process. But for some, “doing their best” is not enough; training partner or no training partner.
And for any low experience pilots who are applying realize that you are placing yourself in a risk/reward scenario; training is tough and you might fail. And if you fail that failure will follow you courtesy of PRIA.
Not to worry, most people work hard and succeed.

soitgoes 09-08-2018 01:42 PM


Originally Posted by Aero757 (Post 2670724)
With that comment, you cannot relate. If that was true, then the airlines should not require partners for training. Was told if you do not have a partner by Sims a person will fail. So why would a person want to go into SIMS without a partner and fail. Bottom line everyone should get an equal chance with all the same tools. Which was not given.....

Please go somewhere else... Good luck, though. And I mean that sincerely.

Nyflier 09-08-2018 02:48 PM


Originally Posted by Aero757 (Post 2670669)
Anyone can say that effort and study were not done to just get rid of the problem but that wasn't the problem, lack of care in management is where the problem is. Most people I know who are captains in the Majors said not having a partner is a set up to fail, why would they say make sure you have a partner for success. All instructors all said why don't you have a partner. If it wasn't important why would they even ask that question. They need to have a better plan earlier on about how to deal with this situation and make it known to the whole class as well and the manager to address this situation immediately. Working in any job is to be a team effort and not want to see anyone fail due to lack of effort on a manager that was notified many times and did nothing to help but take the easy way out.

People who had partners can easily say this but if it were to happen to them it might not have been a good outcome as well.

It is a proven statistic that working with a partner from the beginning will be more successful than not and everyone in this industry knows that, they just do not want to admit its true and they can't be wrong.

As a senior captain, check airman, and APD, I can tell you that they will have someone be seat support for training. It’s up to you to study with classmates outside of the sim and IPT’s. I feel like there’s more to this story. What do you think happens when there’s an odd number of people in class? Or when your partner fails? The training department does what they can. You have to put in the effort. Not having a partner is fairly common.

kevin18 09-08-2018 04:28 PM


Originally Posted by Malcolm Tent (Post 2670731)
The range of experience among new hires is significant and despite the best efforts of the trainee and the training department some fail to complete training. I would hope the training department and hiring department do some analysis in an attempt to minimize attrition through improved screening during the hiring process. But for some, “doing their best” is not enough; training partner or no training partner.
And for any low experience pilots who are applying realize that you are placing yourself in a risk/reward scenario; training is tough and you might fail. And if you fail that failure will follow you courtesy of PRIA.
Not to worry, most people work hard and succeed.

I would be more concerned if people didn’t fail.

Flyboyxc91 09-08-2018 05:15 PM


Originally Posted by Aero757 (Post 2670724)
With that comment, you cannot relate. If that was true, then the airlines should not require partners for training. Was told if you do not have a partner by Sims a person will fail. So why would a person want to go into SIMS without a partner and fail. Bottom line everyone should get an equal chance with all the same tools. Which was not given.....

As far as my earlier post, like I said I had multiple partners through the process, even took time off from being unfortunately seriously ill and had to go to the emergency room one night before taking a week off from the illness. When I came back to the sims again I had two more partners since one was a retrain and then the next was additional training and the third a seat support... I studied all the time, I was doing flows and on the telephone doing call outs with line pilots that are friends randomly through conversations .. I was lucky enough to piece it all together along with a lot of work and I passed sims on time with no prior 121.. I do feel like having a sim partner etc is somewhat disadvantageous but I never let it get to my performance... I knew the procedures and I stuck to what the manual and instructors told me. I probably studied 12 hours a day some days in addition to class/IPT/SIM but on average 4-6 hours of preparing and studying materials and had zero problems in the footprint except uncontrollable delays.

I’ve learned that you get out what you put in be it by yourself or as a group and yes ideally both but like in my case I seldom had both on a consistent basis. I know it must feel horrible thinking management just dumped you off to drown in the deep water but I haven’t sensed that at all in my experience and frankly from others as well they did a lot to help.. they even have extra sessions for ground training and IPTs that are encouraged if you have concerns.

Swakid8 09-08-2018 05:18 PM


Originally Posted by Nyflier (Post 2670767)
As a senior captain, check airman, and APD, I can tell you that they will have someone be seat support for training. It’s up to you to study with classmates outside of the sim and IPT’s. I feel like there’s more to this story. What do you think happens when there’s an odd number of people in class? Or when your partner fails? The training department does what they can. You have to put in the effort. Not having a partner is fairly common.



This right here. You wasn't the first without a partner, and you will not be the last. There's more to this story.


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irrelevant 09-08-2018 05:42 PM

Honestly if HR was more selective in who they hired, we wouldn't be reading about things like this. It shouldn't be the training department's job to filter out unqualified candidates.

Life isn't fair. If someone doesn't have the ability to step up and do their best despite what at worst case is a minor challenge, they shouldn't even be here for day one of Basic Indoctrination.

God forbid someone prone to quit easily makes it to the line and finds they have been assigned an airplane that has a broken APU, or a deferred autopilot, or worse yet they depart and have an issue that requires some effort to overcome.

chrisreedrules 09-08-2018 05:45 PM


Originally Posted by irrelevant (Post 2670822)
Honestly if HR was more selective in who they hired, we wouldn't be reading about things like this. It shouldn't be the training department's job to filter out unqualified candidates.

Life isn't fair. If someone doesn't have the ability to step up and do their best despite what at worst case is a minor challenge, they shouldn't even be here for day one of Basic Indoctrination.

God forbid someone prone to quit easily makes it to the line and finds they have been assigned an airplane that has a broken APU, or a deferred autopilot, or worse yet they depart and have an issue that requires some effort to overcome.

You mean like that clown who made that YouTube video about, “the horrors” of regional FO life and how he was going back to instructing?


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