DCA
10-22-2019, 04:57 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Posts: 658
I will agree that it is what you make of it. If you have a good attitude it’s easy to see past the annoyances that come with the territory.
The rest of it, don’t expect that to be the norm. Some people have had great luck with their timing. A huge part of that is the realignment of 200 flying to DCA.
You also have to account for, as long as we bring in new classes every 2 weeks there is a vacancy bid the goes with that. People study that and see where they can go to get a line or LCR and will swap to that base. Which pushes everyone below them down and out of what they may have had the month prior.
The only way you’ll know you’re safe is if you’re senior enough to hold a Rd 1 in CLT you’re most likely not going to be pushed out anymore since the people above you are where they want to be.
Reserve is creeping up to a year in every base, and as we finish taking on the aircraft growth is going to stop until we can find a way to acquire more aircraft. There’s two things you can know for sure. Those who have had it the best will brag and those who have had it the worst will gripe. Take the average and that’s what you can expect.
The rest of it, don’t expect that to be the norm. Some people have had great luck with their timing. A huge part of that is the realignment of 200 flying to DCA.
You also have to account for, as long as we bring in new classes every 2 weeks there is a vacancy bid the goes with that. People study that and see where they can go to get a line or LCR and will swap to that base. Which pushes everyone below them down and out of what they may have had the month prior.
The only way you’ll know you’re safe is if you’re senior enough to hold a Rd 1 in CLT you’re most likely not going to be pushed out anymore since the people above you are where they want to be.
Reserve is creeping up to a year in every base, and as we finish taking on the aircraft growth is going to stop until we can find a way to acquire more aircraft. There’s two things you can know for sure. Those who have had it the best will brag and those who have had it the worst will gripe. Take the average and that’s what you can expect.
10-22-2019, 06:35 PM
#12
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2019
Posts: 17
What you guys are saying makes sense, and I understand that nothing is promised and I might get bumped. Still, I can only speak from my experience, and while limited, I’m depicting it accurately.
I did get a BU line. I’ve got 507. I’m guessing most folks won’t transfer into DC. It’s more costly to live there and people hate the 200s. We shall see.
Thanks for the welcome guys, see you out there!
I did get a BU line. I’ve got 507. I’m guessing most folks won’t transfer into DC. It’s more costly to live there and people hate the 200s. We shall see.
Thanks for the welcome guys, see you out there!
10-23-2019, 04:36 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 449
What you guys are saying makes sense, and I understand that nothing is promised and I might get bumped. Still, I can only speak from my experience, and while limited, I’m depicting it accurately.
I did get a BU line. I’ve got 507. I’m guessing most folks won’t transfer into DC. It’s more costly to live there and people hate the 200s. We shall see.
Thanks for the welcome guys, see you out there!
I did get a BU line. I’ve got 507. I’m guessing most folks won’t transfer into DC. It’s more costly to live there and people hate the 200s. We shall see.
Thanks for the welcome guys, see you out there!
10-23-2019, 06:37 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 566
Please go educate yourself on PBS. Once you do, PM me an explanation of how SAP, as we know it, would be of any benefit without destroying seniority more than we already have by allowing senior manning of upgrades and making seniority worthless on reserve with the bucket system.
Retaining SAP by having a 2-round PBS bid with flying withheld for a "SAP" pot means you are taking lines away from the upper echelon of low-seniority pilots to accommodate senior pilots that have screwed up their bids. If a senior person bids properly they WILL get the line they could/would SAP into (as long as the system rules match the current SAP parameters). They may lose the fine-grain control of hand-picking trips from the pot, but days off, start times, overnights, and total credit are all things you should be able to provide bid rules for.
A 1-round bid would really make SAP a nearly useless tool, you might as well just call it FCFS and get something in exchange for "giving up SAP."
I'm in favor of the latter. I want every trip and reserve block to be in the pot from the get-go so I can bid a hybrid line with 14+ days off worth 65-75 hours every month. There should be ZERO open time remaining when the bid is closed so reserves only get used when someone calls out sick, takes MIl leave, or needs a PED/PUD (or for operational necessity 🤣
.
10-23-2019, 04:24 PM
#16
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: 135 CA
Posts: 88
What you guys are saying makes sense, and I understand that nothing is promised and I might get bumped. Still, I can only speak from my experience, and while limited, I’m depicting it accurately.
I did get a BU line. I’ve got 507. I’m guessing most folks won’t transfer into DC. It’s more costly to live there and people hate the 200s. We shall see.
Thanks for the welcome guys, see you out there!
I did get a BU line. I’ve got 507. I’m guessing most folks won’t transfer into DC. It’s more costly to live there and people hate the 200s. We shall see.
Thanks for the welcome guys, see you out there!
Right now people with 305XX-307XX numbers are struggling to cling on to any sort of LCR/BU across the system. These people are coming up on a year here. A solid few months of getting abused by CS. Many of them commuters. The moment they see 313XX numbers holding R1 in DCA many will bid it. Because R1 is commutable with SAP. You don't have to move somewhere to be based there. We have many young, no strings attached people that will commute for a line. A line means better pay and most importantly ability to plan your personal life. So Im willing to bet that in 3 months we'll see more senior people in DCA.
10-24-2019, 03:58 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 449
*le sigh*
Please go educate yourself on PBS. Once you do, PM me an explanation of how SAP, as we know it, would be of any benefit without destroying seniority more than we already have by allowing senior manning of upgrades and making seniority worthless on reserve with the bucket system.
Retaining SAP by having a 2-round PBS bid with flying withheld for a "SAP" pot means you are taking lines away from the upper echelon of low-seniority pilots to accommodate senior pilots that have screwed up their bids. If a senior person bids properly they WILL get the line they could/would SAP into (as long as the system rules match the current SAP parameters). They may lose the fine-grain control of hand-picking trips from the pot, but days off, start times, overnights, and total credit are all things you should be able to provide bid rules for.
A 1-round bid would really make SAP a nearly useless tool, you might as well just call it FCFS and get something in exchange for "giving up SAP."
As for destroying seniority how does that work? Once you're senior enough for round one you get SAP... that's how seniority works...
Regarding senior manning, you can thank the union for suggesting that little gem of an agreement in exchange for a small increase in flow. They threw senior FO's under the bus so they could flow a month or two early.
I'm in favor of the latter. I want every trip and reserve block to be in the pot from the get-go so I can bid a hybrid line with 14+ days off worth 65-75 hours every month. There should be ZERO open time remaining when the bid is closed so reserves only get used when someone calls out sick, takes MIl leave, or needs a PED/PUD (or for operational necessity 🤣.
Please go educate yourself on PBS. Once you do, PM me an explanation of how SAP, as we know it, would be of any benefit without destroying seniority more than we already have by allowing senior manning of upgrades and making seniority worthless on reserve with the bucket system.
Retaining SAP by having a 2-round PBS bid with flying withheld for a "SAP" pot means you are taking lines away from the upper echelon of low-seniority pilots to accommodate senior pilots that have screwed up their bids. If a senior person bids properly they WILL get the line they could/would SAP into (as long as the system rules match the current SAP parameters). They may lose the fine-grain control of hand-picking trips from the pot, but days off, start times, overnights, and total credit are all things you should be able to provide bid rules for.
A 1-round bid would really make SAP a nearly useless tool, you might as well just call it FCFS and get something in exchange for "giving up SAP."
As for destroying seniority how does that work? Once you're senior enough for round one you get SAP... that's how seniority works...
Regarding senior manning, you can thank the union for suggesting that little gem of an agreement in exchange for a small increase in flow. They threw senior FO's under the bus so they could flow a month or two early.
I'm in favor of the latter. I want every trip and reserve block to be in the pot from the get-go so I can bid a hybrid line with 14+ days off worth 65-75 hours every month. There should be ZERO open time remaining when the bid is closed so reserves only get used when someone calls out sick, takes MIl leave, or needs a PED/PUD (or for operational necessity 🤣
.And I am telling you that the Union is considering reducing the effectiveness of SAP, and given the Companies track record of making the Union look like fools by actually understanding how contract language works, if we give the company an inch where SAP is concerned you can pretty well wave goodbye to it.
If you don't believe me just look at how badly the union got played with the reserve "improvements", or how our union is still agreeing to these last minute convoluted holiday pay LOA's. Instead of holding their ground for a permanent agreement that actually includes reserves (aka half the pilot group).
10-24-2019, 04:03 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 137
I think you are mistaken.
Right now people with 305XX-307XX numbers are struggling to cling on to any sort of LCR/BU across the system. These people are coming up on a year here. A solid few months of getting abused by CS. Many of them commuters. The moment they see 313XX numbers holding R1 in DCA many will bid it. Because R1 is commutable with SAP. You don't have to move somewhere to be based there. We have many young, no strings attached people that will commute for a line. A line means better pay and most importantly ability to plan your personal life. So Im willing to bet that in 3 months we'll see more senior people in DCA.
Right now people with 305XX-307XX numbers are struggling to cling on to any sort of LCR/BU across the system. These people are coming up on a year here. A solid few months of getting abused by CS. Many of them commuters. The moment they see 313XX numbers holding R1 in DCA many will bid it. Because R1 is commutable with SAP. You don't have to move somewhere to be based there. We have many young, no strings attached people that will commute for a line. A line means better pay and most importantly ability to plan your personal life. So Im willing to bet that in 3 months we'll see more senior people in DCA.
10-24-2019, 11:50 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 155
*le sigh*
Please go educate yourself on PBS. Once you do, PM me an explanation of how SAP, as we know it, would be of any benefit without destroying seniority more than we already have by allowing senior manning of upgrades and making seniority worthless on reserve with the bucket system.
Retaining SAP by having a 2-round PBS bid with flying withheld for a "SAP" pot means you are taking lines away from the upper echelon of low-seniority pilots to accommodate senior pilots that have screwed up their bids. If a senior person bids properly they WILL get the line they could/would SAP into (as long as the system rules match the current SAP parameters). They may lose the fine-grain control of hand-picking trips from the pot, but days off, start times, overnights, and total credit are all things you should be able to provide bid rules for.
A 1-round bid would really make SAP a nearly useless tool, you might as well just call it FCFS and get something in exchange for "giving up SAP."
I'm in favor of the latter. I want every trip and reserve block to be in the pot from the get-go so I can bid a hybrid line with 14+ days off worth 65-75 hours every month. There should be ZERO open time remaining when the bid is closed so reserves only get used when someone calls out sick, takes MIl leave, or needs a PED/PUD (or for operational necessity
).
Please go educate yourself on PBS. Once you do, PM me an explanation of how SAP, as we know it, would be of any benefit without destroying seniority more than we already have by allowing senior manning of upgrades and making seniority worthless on reserve with the bucket system.
Retaining SAP by having a 2-round PBS bid with flying withheld for a "SAP" pot means you are taking lines away from the upper echelon of low-seniority pilots to accommodate senior pilots that have screwed up their bids. If a senior person bids properly they WILL get the line they could/would SAP into (as long as the system rules match the current SAP parameters). They may lose the fine-grain control of hand-picking trips from the pot, but days off, start times, overnights, and total credit are all things you should be able to provide bid rules for.
A 1-round bid would really make SAP a nearly useless tool, you might as well just call it FCFS and get something in exchange for "giving up SAP."
I'm in favor of the latter. I want every trip and reserve block to be in the pot from the get-go so I can bid a hybrid line with 14+ days off worth 65-75 hours every month. There should be ZERO open time remaining when the bid is closed so reserves only get used when someone calls out sick, takes MIl leave, or needs a PED/PUD (or for operational necessity
).Get out of here with that nonsense..
10-25-2019, 06:04 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 566
I assume you mean that I should keep logic out of the discussion and go off pure emotion
I'm still a "No" unless we get some amazing stuff in return and a trial period before the vote.
(ie 4:30 min day gives everyone a minimum of 13/14 off)
I'm still a "No" unless we get some amazing stuff in return and a trial period before the vote.
(ie 4:30 min day gives everyone a minimum of 13/14 off)
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