I'd like to cast a second vote that it's hilarious reading PSA (and Mesa) crying about contracts. Either you voted in a POS or are willing to work for peanuts to get more jetzzzzzz. Either way it's a classic case of "just getting what you asked for".

Ha-ha.

Nobody is crying about our contract. We are actually just asking that our contract be honored. I know, I know, that's asking way too much... But I'm sure you know more about the situation than those of us who work here and have actually read the contract.

PSA's contract is actually pretty good. FaceBiter is just jealous of it.

The scheduling flexibility is the best of any airline, and the rest is average at worst. The only bad parts are the pay scale (which is average but improving) and the 12/4, which no person will ever see.

He is jealous that PSA got a good contract - much better than he has.

PSA's pilots negotiated a good contract. It will just take some work to get the company to follow it.

O really now? You guys didn't vote in a garbage deal?

Our 2013 Contract had nothing to do with the jetzzzzzzz.

A) any Eagle guys care to chime in here?

B) I thought you guys were union. ELOHeL.

Get a grip bruh. You're a bottomfeeder.

I guess Facebiter has a ton of extra time to be a PSA contract expert. Maybe if half the pilots at his company weren't sitting reserve or if half the line holders didn't have zero hour lines, he'd have better things to do with his time. But ASPEN!!!!!!

Zero hour lines. Har! We'd like that!

And true, the FAA isn't stupid enough to let you guys into ASE.

Pretty sure Lynx flew all over the Colorado mountains and was a start up company. They must not be stupid enough to let PSA fly with iPads, ETOPS, to Canada, or Mexico because they currently don't.
PSA had less than 50 airplanes and didn't cross the Mississippi River for decades. Sure they were a minimalist airline that didn't spend money on problems it didn't have.
Good attempt to make yourself feel better and more important though.

I wouldn't agree with that in exchange for the current process we have now. Critical pay is suppose to keep them honest with regards to min reserves needed, if there are no repercussions for going below the min reserve level we will see black numbers on the reserve grid 100% of the time. At XJT everyday was negative so nobody could trade a crappy 4 day for a nice 3 day after the ILIW (aka SAP), the critical level prevents that and gives all the round 2 pilots a chance to move their entire schedules around. I was originally on SCR for xmas and new years and was able to trade those days off becuase they were green, if we compromised on critical language I would have been stuck working those days so not worth it for 4 hour min day and 150% SDO. I make more credit with more days off the way we have it now even with critical pay not being available.

You were obviously not at psa when the full critical pay was active. Give it time, soon you will understand what is currently going on with the current buffer system is not desirable. In my post you quoted I said I want better language on buffers because we need better language as it is and getting rid of critical completely would require better language. something along the lines of a specific detailed formula the company must use. The only language we have now is "the company must set reasonable buffers." Tell me how iron clad that is? I've put a lot thought into this, it's merely just my opinion. Everyone has their own and I respect yours.

What is so special about Aspen? Been there, done that. Try landing at SBH and then give me a call.

I've got hundreds of hours of mountain flying time, east coast and west coast. I have no clue why these pilots keep coming on here acting like flying to ASE is even a big deal? It simply isn't. We don't fly into ASE because we don't fly anywhere near there currently.

I would say "The company must set reasonable buffers" would exclude the company from having a reserve buffer set into negative numbers. What exactly is a negative person? Can that exist?

I think there is absolutely no way we ever return to the "glory days", so to speak, of critical pay a la spring/summer 2014. We better get something damn good in exchange.

I'm also nervous that if anything actually does come to a vote that the junior pilots will not know what they are giving up. The money making potential with the critical pay was astronomical. 180-200 hours was very obtainable at 11-12 days off.

I agree, what they are doing now with the negitive buffers does not agree with how reasonable poeple would interpret the contract. That is why we need better language regarding what the company can and can't do with buffers.

Clever....

What about an LOA that was passed around August or September 2013?

Take it easy A$$biter.

That's all they got. At some point they will get stapled on to the bottom and this argument will be over.

They wouldn't make it a big deal if the FAA didn't make it a big deal. Flying in there in a Falcon or Challenger is a lot different than in an RJ. The 700 currently is the only plane with the single engine performance to "extract" itself out of there. It's not a big deal till you lose an engine shortly after V1 in the middle of a blizzard, then you better hope all that extra sim training pays dividends. I'm not saying that another airline couldn't do it. But so far only SkyWest spent the money to fly their own jets empty in there for months during the summer, practicing V1 cuts to validate to the FAA our lower than standard approach minimums (for ASE)... Something the bizjet guys don't' have.

This topic has gotten way off track. Hope you guys get your money. If this isn't grounds to strike or "informational picket" I don't know what is.

Not bragging, cause I don't see what there is to brag about at this place anymore, but we had over 100 new hires (114 i think?) in the last new hire indoc class. We're attracting new mouth breathers at an alarming rate. Our work rules, pay, and everything else may be going down, but it's not the amount of flying currently. We've added (unofficially) more CRJ every flying the last 4 months in ORD. We'd have more if we could staff it, but we already have 166 projected lines with only 165 to fly them in March. All if this additional flying is from some other contract carrier(s) who isn't bringing in 100 new hires a month.

Well, all I can tell you is that pilots here are more than capable. And ASE isn't the measure of one's mountain flying abilities. Funny you mention engine failures... I have actually had one in the mountains. Angel Fire/Taos area.

And maybe AAG will give the Envoy 709 flying to SkyWest? I don't know. All I know is that AAG does t want the CRJ at Envoy. I imagine if PSA can't take them then someone else will.

I think it has more to do with SkyWest having a plethora of commutable bases for West coast pilots and decent pay. Mesa, Conpass, and Horizon are the only other ones who offer west coast bases.

AAs 2016 fleet plan shows a net gain of 7 crj-700s. That's in addition to the 61 combined that are currently operated by PSA and Envoy. Skywest has 200s coming off contract with AA and 700s coming off contact with UA. It only makes sense that Skywest takes 7 former UA 700s and puts them into operation with AA in exchange for AA 200s coming off contract. AA doesn't have to spend the money on PSA to get ASE qualled and Skywest can takeover the ASE routes if and when Envoy hands over the last 700s to PSA. It's also worth mentioning AA is showing a net decrease of close to 25 200s in 2016. Currently PSA, Skywest, ASA and Wisconsin are the only AA 200 operators and aircraft could be coming from either operator. I think Wisconsin is already down about 5 aircraft from their 70 and as I mentioned early Skywest has some 200s coming off contract.

I think they will come from AWAC or PSA... What will be really telling is AAs 2017 fleet reductions. I'll bet we see a whole lot more 50 seaters gone in 2017.

This has already been confirmed through internal memos. Thought it had already been posted somewhere else around here. We also placed some of those off contract 700s with Delta.

Like I said though, Skywest and ASA have 200s coming off contract in 2016. I know this because Skywest is public, just wait for their filings to come out and you can probably figure it out. Air Wisconsin is obviously private, I think they have around 65 planes on contract through the end of 2016. I think you're right about 2017, we'll probably see the biggest reduction in regional flying.

Never said you guys couldn't... That was another one of our shining "stars" here. Honestly think 95% of the pilots at any operation could do any of the flying any carrier does in this country. Hence, why we are so easily whipsawed.

Reflecting on this whole thread, yes it sucks for you PSA guys that your company isn't honoring your contract. Some would maybe say Karma because you didn't hold the line with Envoy when every other regional had also held theirs, but I understand, you're pilots and you look out for #1 like Cam Newton and everyone else in this industry usually does. However, don't dwell on your employers shortcomings, enjoy the fact you have a guaranteed flow through program. At least there is a light at the end of your tunnel.

I hope you see the issue here is ALPA. Not the pilots.
700 flying came from one ALPA carrier to another. It shouldn't have.
ALPA does not have the ability to protect our jobs nor our contract.

Our dues are wasted on the dysfunctional Union.

Who is going to be stapled and where?

If you want to talk about holding the line, one could argue Skywest pilots are the worst offenders by not voting in representation while their sister company shrinks. I'm not arguing my opinion, just throwing that argument out there. Skywest pilots do not have a union or collective bargaining agreement like every other 121 scheduled airline including the most recent JetBlue, allegiant and virgin America (the last three I mentioned don't have a CBA yet but will soon).

While I won't disagree with you, most of the people here are too comfortable to even put forth the effort to do such a thing. We're kind of like the Switzerland of the Regionals. Happy, glassyeyed, and like to ski. Most see a union is as just a loss of 2% of your pay with significant nothing to show for it. Every union is fighting against each other instead of with. Not one airline is represented by a true national union. If you think they are, go talk to someone at IBEW (International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers). Thats what a real union looks like. When you're willing to push for something like this, I'll be at the front of the pack with the biggest pitchfork.

Skywest may not be helping to be part of the solution, but we definitely aren't the worst offenders out there in the regional world. You'd have to look inward at your own unions to find who's really responsible for the **** storm the last decade was.

I must say it is 'hi-larryous' that PSA pilots are beating the 'union' bongo after stabbing fellow ALPA Eagle pilots in the back. Go union! Hahahahahahahahhaha.

It's all about PSA...don't you understand? They only care about themselves...

Good luck waiting on the grievance. Envoy pilots won the LowTime FO grievance 2 years ago and we haven't seen a dime. Arbitrator should issue the ruling this month, still don't believe it until I see the money in my account.

Expect PSA/AAG management drag their feet for a couple of years. If it cost them money and if is good for the pilots, forget about it.

It's got nothing to do with union, its just that we don't like Envoy.

The Critical Pay issue is a very simple fix;

1. Round 1 line holders: SAP down to 75 (65 if you're willing)
2. Everyone else: Stop picking up open time and don't answer your phone on days off.

If we as a pilot group could all agree to those 2 steps the company would find itself in a true critical situation very quickly. They would burn through the reserves quickly and start attempting to junior man. When they are unable to junior man they will have no choice but to cancel flights and that might finally get us some attention.

This is not a strike and this is not a union action, this is just each pilot making a personal decision to follow the contract to the letter even though the company has not. I would estimate it will take 2-3 months before the changes take place.

I will start making my personal decision March 1st

As long as we don't burn the FOs (myself included, full disclosure) with families that can't keep them fed or housed at 75/65 hours a month. Honestly, only the CAs (those that can afford it), could accomplish this while the poverty level FOs continue to scrape by with pay protection.

Post upgrade, if the upgrades don't stop, I'll gladly bid down and get more time off.

This could lead to more than just a critical pay fix.

I fully agree. food, shelter, and kids come first. I'm a reserve capt, thats why I didn't suggest round 1 guys SAP below 75, since I can't take myself below guarantee I certainly wouldn't expect anyone else to.

I understand this will be a squeeze for a lot of guys, but with the staffing situation already near critical, I wouldn't expect it to be for long.

Also fellow reserves remember:

"If a pilot has credited at least 71 hours for flying assigned by the company in a month, any remaining reserve days can be dropped in order of seniority.The pilot will select this in his monthly bid. If the remaining reserve days are not dropped, the pilot will be placed on long-call reserve on any such remaining days" 3.K.2

And when the reserve grid is black and no one can drop days anymore, the guys on long call will just continue flying since long call reserves get used the most. Making this sections pretty much useless.