The fast upgrade train as left Mesa Station.

Nonsense. PSA will again ascend to the top of the ladder. Daddy American doesn't like you guys, especially Envoy. There's a pecking order here, you guys need to learn your place.

Back in the day, Mesa pilots would all get together and shop with food stamps at the grocery store. Good times, good times.

Yawn, who cares...it's all about money to Parker. They will keep all of us as cheaper as they can. It's funny to see you guys *****ing and whinning now.

Not me, everything is all coming up roses over here. No complaints at all, life is good. I always try and SAP down to 65 hours and like my days off.

How are we different than any other airline who wants to see improvement in their pay and contract?

Difference is that...

-PSA got concessions
-PDT and ENY had to got concession and line up their payscales (12/4), health insurance (35%), etc.
-We can say the same about flow, all of us are pretty similar
-Commuter Hotel - ENY and PDT are the same
-Recruiting tools (sign in bonus, pilot cadet program)

And I'm talking WO as a 3 pilot group.

AAG is aligning all the WO to the same pay, benefits, etc. The only WO airline getting contract improvement is Endevour, everybody else are contract carriers. We don't know how long before AAG take some feed away to incentive pilots that being in a WO is the way to go.

And Parker said in a townhall a couple of months ago "once you have a contract, we can't change it because the industry changed". In other words, "sorry we only change the contract if we wanted changed, not because you want more money."

We're not entitled to anything just because you got something. If we are given it by AA or we negotiate or whatever then so be it.

I don't think anyone at PSA is demanding more money because we feel we deserve it. We're simply pointing out that in today's landscape of few pilots and many competitive offers from other regionals that our compensation offerings are rapidly falling to the bottom of the industry. What AAG chooses to do from here is entirely up to them.

We are already at the bottom of the industry. All I'm saying is that AAG will go the cheaper way, holding critical pay and send it to arbitration will give them 1-2 years saving that money.

SAP 75, no open time, no junior man.

We are already failing to attract new hires, if we stop helping them staff the flights they will have to cancel them and that will get critical pay fixed. As well as some other things hopefully.

So you're saying their grand plan was to align these 3 WOs just to watch them die as everyone goes to companies that pay more in the new market of scarce pilots?

And they will bend you over and tell you to like it, like others have done because of what you did

Didn't Envoy pilots vote in a bankruptcy contract only to them overwhelmingly vote on additional concessions a year later? Wasn't it 75% in favor of 12/4 concessions at Envoy?

lol.......

Don't be so homophobic, some people pay double for that kind of action.

They did it at least 3 times in a row. They ruined everything.

And we see another month go by with no communication regarding critical pay.
Another month of lost wages.
4-6 months huh. Coming up on a year since the first arbitration meeting.
Great contract Alpa.

Participate in the conference calls or listen to the recording of it, critical pay was discussed.

Good, go back to the $hithole airline you all supported and like it. upgradddEzzzz

Tell me again, who was the only wholly owned airline that accepted the band aid fix? A lot of leverage could have been gained if everyone said no. Get off your high horse.

Rumor on the street is that the pilot group won the arbitration but there will not be any fine against the company.
The union did not make any announcement but continues to negotiate bonuses for f/o's while Captains take a $50k hit. (2 months ago).

If this is true it is time to dump ALPA. Obviously they cannot write contracts, enforce them or represent their dues paying members properly.

You do realize that if you dump ALPA, it'll still be the same people running the Union with the same results. It isn't ALPA's fault the people you elected aren't doing their job. It's your fault.

Just like the guy I get to cut my grass. I pay him. He dies a crappy job and it's my fault?
No, I fire him and find a replacement. And I keep hiring/firing till the people do the job properly.

No. That's like saying, "Congress gave away too many jobs to Mexico so let's overthrow the government.". You didn't hire ALPA. You didn't hire your reps. You voted them in and if they do a bad job, it is your fault for not properly veting your representatives.

+1

I've been APA, ALPA, IBT, ALPA, ALPA, and now I'm ALPA. It's all about what your local representatives do.

That becomes a problem with small pilot groups because they have a much smaller talent pool upon which to draw. It takes someone with some talent to be an effective union leader.

You do realize that if ALPA won the case but there isn't any fine then that was a decision made by the arbitrator not ALPA. Once you go to arbitration then the outcome of the case and any penalties against the loser is done by the arbitrator period. Now if they settled the case and gave the pay for the pilots then you might have a DFR lawsuit.

I wouldn't be shocked the arbiter failed to award damages. He's tried to force a settlement 3 times to avoid doing his job and to keep himself is AA/PSA's good good graces.

Rumor in the street is you're at mainline, which means you were senior enough to reap the immediate benefits of the flow.

So does that make you the PSA equivalent of eaglefly? At least he uses some basic math and common sense.

I heard that the arbitrator made a decision that neither the company nor the pilot group will be happy about. I don't know any more details other than that though.

As has been explained to me, arbitrators have to walk a fine line between giving a windfall to the pilot group, therefore ensuring that a company will never use their services again, and giving a windfall to a company, therefore ensuring a pilot group will never hire them.

It's a semi flawed system in that regard.

Yes, but the pilot group changes with elections and has a short memory as the pilot group moves to greener pastures. The company not so much. The arbitor naturally has much more concern for keeping the company happy. If he didn't, he wouldn't have refused to make a decision and wouldn't have directed us back to the negotiating table 3 times after the same negotiations that failed in the first place.

Um, you should figure out how long our current CA Reps and MEC Chair have been with the company.

I'll give you a hint: it's far longer than our CEO, DO, and perhaps VP of Flight Ops.

Consider as well the institutional knowledge at National as well. I guarantee you that someone in Herndon knows the score on all the arbitrators.

Rumors are carried by haters
Spreaded by fools
And accepted by IDIOTS

Very good point. I think TR did a great thing by including pilots that don't plan on going anywhere. The pilot group needs that consistency. I don't give National that much credit.

I guess in my head I was thinking more along the lines of AA overseeing everything and pulling the strings.

I think it would be a mistake to conflate our current position and challenges at the regional level with the competency level that exists at National. The longstanding frustrations at the regionals have far more to do with market forces and what certain people in airline leadership (particularly at AAG) are failing to grasp about the changing pilot market. That ALPA an easy punching bag for people that stop learning about it at the moment they realize they can't strike at will doesn't actually mean anything.

Hold on there buddy. If what he says is correct and there has in fact been a ruling by the arbitrator, and then you as the head of the union are covering up that there has been a ruling in favor of some kind of negotiation, you are doing a major dis service to the pilot group. To be clear, the pilot group deserves to know the facts of the situation. You are accountable to us not the other way.

If your only evidence that I'm TR is that I know more labor law than you do I guess that means that 90% the posters in this forum could be TR.

Just sayin'......

Fine. Resort to name calling.
The company has a contract to abide too. The union has obligations to hold the company to the contract. Our elected officials owe it to the union paying members to enforce it.
I've lost over $75k in two years. If in fact the union has known for 2 months that the arbitration was settled they are required to inform the pilot group.
Those that filled out PRF's are due answers. If we aren't getting 30% of our income then let us know, So we can find representation outside of ALPA.