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How do people wash out of airline training?

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How do people wash out of airline training?

Old 10-12-2018, 08:11 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by airplane401 View Post
I'm a CFI with about 1000 hours. A recent co worker of mine washed out of airline training at the regionals. Now I'm worried I may not be ready when I get to 1500. I'm not a CFII but I hear that getting one would help. Part of me thinks I should go to planesense or tradewinds to build IFR skills and further my experience to prepare for airline training at the regionals.


How can I be sure that I'll be ready for airline training?
I know a 25 year retired Air Force pilot and instructor who almost washed out because he was so focused on V1 cuts and other minor things, he neglected the flows and procedures. You will learn to fly the RJ or whatever plane when you do ioe. The mode control panel and FMS is what most guys get lost on. Second is the flows. They want those down pat as it will make things go much smoother.
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Old 10-12-2018, 09:12 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by beech1980 View Post
I know a 25 year retired Air Force pilot and instructor who almost washed out because he was so focused on V1 cuts and other minor things, he neglected the flows and procedures. You will learn to fly the RJ or whatever plane when you do ioe. The mode control panel and FMS is what most guys get lost on. Second is the flows. They want those down pat as it will make things go much smoother.
Just flew with a person who was very experienced but out of the cockpit and didn't touch controls for 10+ years. Used only X-plane CRJ sim to get back into the scan and learn the panel, went through training with no problems.
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Old 10-12-2018, 11:28 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by TiredSoul View Post
Yes it absolutely does.
It’s been said before, certain things can’t be fixed in the sim.
That’s basic/intermediate knowledge and understanding of operations in the IFR system.
Just because you’re good at flying an ILS at 70 knots in a 172 doesn’t mean you’ll be good flying a complicated SID in a -200 at 250 knots.

However, if you’re not rock solid in flying GA IFR you’re going to be screwed in the sim.
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Old 10-12-2018, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by DarkSideMoon View Post
Just because you’re good at flying an ILS at 70 knots in a 172 doesn’t mean you’ll be good flying a complicated SID in a -200 at 250 knots.

However, if you’re not rock solid in flying GA IFR you’re going to be screwed in the sim.
You're also gonna be screwed on the line.

ILS at 70 knots will not automatically get you all the way to ILS at 140 knots, but it will sure get you a whole hell of a lot closer than not being able to fly an ILS at all.

Unless you use the autopilot all the time because "it reduces workload" and the rest of the litany of justifications to never fly.
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Old 10-12-2018, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by beech1980 View Post
I know a 25 year retired Air Force pilot and instructor who almost washed out because he was so focused on V1 cuts.....
I knew a Sasquatch who nailed V1 cuts every time. We called him “Bigfoot”.
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Old 10-12-2018, 01:36 PM
  #26  
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Study what they tell you to study. Nobody cares if you know how fast the fan spins or how many rivets are in the airplane. Follow the training program.

If they tell you to know your flows, call-outs, limitations and memory items before you show up, know them. You don't have to know why you're touching a switch at this point, just know you have to touch it and when.

Attitude is 90% of airline training. Most training programs will work with you as much as you need...provided you have a good attitude. If the instructor is constantly riding you and your partner and being overly negative, get a new instructor. If it's only you who is constantly butting heads with the instructor, look inwards and knock that s*&t off! It can't be stated enough, cooperate-graduate! If you need help, ask!

Good luck!
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Old 10-13-2018, 07:43 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by EMBFlyer View Post
Study what they tell you to study. Nobody cares if you know how fast the fan spins or how many rivets are in the airplane.
Back in the day you used to have to know stuff like this. I know a guy who failed an oral because he didn't know the volume of the lav trash bin and how much potable water the tank held. Not even kidding. You had to know about 40 different dimensions on the air frame, how many static wicks, vortex vanes, etc. But those days are long gone.


Originally Posted by EMBFlyer View Post
If they tell you to know your flows, call-outs, limitations and memory items before you show up, know them. You don't have to know why you're touching a switch at this point, just know you have to touch it and when.

Attitude is 90% of airline training. Most training programs will work with you as much as you need...provided you have a good attitude. If the instructor is constantly riding you and your partner and being overly negative, get a new instructor. If it's only you who is constantly butting heads with the instructor, look inwards and knock that s*&t off! It can't be stated enough, cooperate-graduate! If you need help, ask!

Good luck!
Good advice.
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Old 10-13-2018, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by EMBFlyer View Post
If they tell you to know your flows, call-outs, limitations and memory items before you show up, know them. You don't have to know why you're touching a switch at this point, just know you have to touch it and when.
Just go in with that stuff memorized cold anyway, if you can get your hands on the materials.

Often I see the advice that they'll teach you what you need to know at the schoolhouse so you shouldn't try to study ahead, but I strongly disagree with it. You'll have plenty of your attention occupied by higher-level more abstract knowledge that requires some reasoning and has to be taught by an instructor with examples, discussion, etc. So, for raw facts that are simply memorized, you'll make your life that much easier by reducing what comes of the firehose because you already, uhm, drank up beforehand.

But there is a possibility of getting burned by studying stuff at an airline undergoing an episode of quick-changing SOP's. So if you're gonna use someone's pre-made Quizlet or whatever, make sure it's recent and have someone vouch for it that's already there.
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Old 10-16-2018, 05:25 AM
  #29  
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It’s been said a couple of times, but I’m going to say it again for emphasis

FLOWS, MEMORY ITEMS, LIMITATIONS.

Know these 100% when you walk into an oral. If you can know them before you even show up to class all the better. Every type oral I’ve done has started out with limitations and memory items. Nail those and it really sets the tone for the rest of the oral. My expectation is that when doing systems in the oral I can say I don’t know a few times and still be doing good... that’s not the case with limitations.

Now, if you bust an oral you probably aren’t washing out of training. But it definitely hangs a cloud of misery over the rest of your stay,

The people I’ve seen wash out are just like people describe...those with the improper attitude. One thing no one has really mentioned is be social. Hang out with your sim partner and others in your class. You will get a lot out of a group setting, even during not official group study sessions. Example. We hung out at the pool a lot drinking beer and just chilling... definitely not a study session. Still though the conversation would steer back towards training and the next thing you know we are talking systems.
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Old 10-16-2018, 05:28 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by DarkSideMoon View Post
Just because you’re good at flying an ILS at 70 knots in a 172 doesn’t mean you’ll be good flying a complicated SID in a -200 at 250 knots.

However, if you’re not rock solid in flying GA IFR you’re going to be screwed in the sim.
That’s why I practiced in a retract or in a twin at 120kts.
And for a complicated SID you use the autopilot. That’s what it’s there for.
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