The thing that I find most intriguing about all of this is how they claim that people are not psychologically qualified to be at mainline. So it's just fine to haul our passengers around on the C-scale partner operation, but when you want to actually have a career, oh no we can't allow that.

Rumors of approval rate hovering around 30%. Mixed reviews for what exactly they are looking for in an applicant. I believe this program is truly geared towards grooming college students to be United, and rather a formality for current regional guys.

If they believe the majority of the 10k pilots they are hiring over the next 10 years will be current college kids then UA is pretty clueless of the rigors each individual person goes through, and shows that they don’t value experience until something inevitably goes wrong (I.e the 757 in EWR accident).

Here we go again with this tired old story. It isn’t a test to see if you are psychologically or otherwise qualified. A resume and stack of logbooks show that you are qualified to fly the jet. The purpose of the entire interview process, from the Hogan to the final review board, is to see if the applicant has the personality traits that they are looking for, and to hire people who will fit into what ever their view of the company culture is. If it was just about qualifications they would simply pick names out of a hat to fill classes.

This would be fine if they held the standard across the board of what it is to be qualified to move a United passenger. They have plenty of people moving around on aircraft operated by places that have little to no standards. The mainline pilots have the gumption to speak down to those that go to places like Norwegian. The previous poster said the acceptance rate on this sham is around 30% . What are they supposed to do? Live off of their parents forever.

Again, it has nothing to do with who is qualified to move a United passenger. It is about who United wants working for United. You are not selected because you are qualified, but because they feel that your personality will fit the corporate culture. Everyone on interview day is qualified to move United passengers, many currently are for their respective employers, however the interview process is to select those who they feel will be the best fit to be employed by United. I don’t know exactly what they are looking for, but when an applicant goes in thinking that the program is a sham, or that they already work for United because the company that they really work is contracted by United, those conducting the interview pick up on questionable attitudes pretty quick and it doesn’t end with a job offer.

As to your last point, take your labor where you can. If United was your first choice and you weren’t selected, move on to the LCC’s or something similar while you hope for a call from Delta, Fed Ex, American, etc. Don’t rot in the regionals. Try to get somewhere that you could be happy if United or Delta never calls. There are plenty of people at United who were shot down somewhere else. The same is true at Delta, American, etc. Apply everywhere, don’t beat yourself up if someone says no, and be grateful for the one that you land.

The worst part is they have thousands of guys and women who are grossly overqualified with thousands of hours of 121 PIC. They think the solution to the future is to head to the flight schools and hire the CFI's. And no as Delta says they won't be bad FO's because of their experience. I'm still not sure who came up with that idea.

They are looking years down the road. They want to encourage people to enter aviation to provide a long term supply of pilots.

Having a ton of quality flight time isn’t the biggest factor. Lots of people have thick logbooks. They are going after individual personalities who also meet the standard. There have been a couple of exceptions, but the vast majority of people who were hired have been excellent pilots and employees.

United Aviate
 

Same is true of all the regionals, no? I fly with excellent fellow pilots that are also excellent employees. There’s diversity of opinions but I simply do not see the logic in thinking that regional pilots would do any less well of a job at a mainline. It’s a job. We follow procedures. We are standard. Company culture? Huh? How different is “mainline company culture” different from regional company culture? As a leader myself, I realize that this is quite absurd, and choose to not recognize it as a valid metric.


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The vast majority of the regional pilots that I meet commuting seem to me to be cut from the same cloth as every other pilot in the industry. I have no idea why United picks who they do. The point was that their selection isn’t decided by qualifications only. Just because one is hired by one company, doesn’t mean that that same individual would be hired by another.

Got a TBNT today. Nov 6 interview. 4900 TT, 700 TPIC, 4-year degree, 121 Captain, no negative history. Another guy I know got turned down too. Sounds like AVIATE is a marketing tool.

I wouldn't care about working for a regional if we got the same payscale, profit sharing, 401k, and benefits. I have a problem with us being treated like $hit in comparison to mainline.

Clean record (couple 141 fails that supposedly don’t matter, but they still ask about them and want you to explain why you look like you are a horrible pilot. So still they still judge you on NON part 121 failures.)

Thought I did well in both HR and the Technical, however I got a TBNT email after approx 3 weeks.

“Dire pilot shortage” guys.
Enjoy.

Got accepted. You can try again in 12 months

Of course you did. Because you don't even know the rules of Aviate.

You're United material because they'll walk all over you because you don't know or won't care about your contract.

If you get a TBNT letter, YOU ARE OUT of Aviate.

AFAIK you can try off the street and I haven't heard of a time restriction on that but how likely do you think that is?

You got interviewed and didn't get hired. Everyone who didn't get a chance now goes ahead of you.

You work at a UAX carrier. Why would they cannibalize MORE of their own feed?

If you get turned down at Aviate, your best bet is to plan on another path until all of the Aviate hires go ahead of you or United comes up with another carrot.

Let's call the new program: "Flip!"

Heads or tails? You're HIRED!

Don't feel bad. They're turning down military/management/union types ON TOP of your qualifications or close to that.

Ideally, they'd still honor those 'old' hard skills/resume points, SOME personality, and a good chunk of consideration given to employees who recommend you.

But I think the mix is shifted to 'soft' skills/soft personality types. (No, that doesn't mean whoever reads this in particular, Frances, just an across the board sea change. So lighten up.)

Yeah, it's a tired old argument about being United material because you basically already ARE as far as the pubic is concerned.

The customer experience is much of the bottom line.

As a whole, when we are staffed, XJT beats United's own metrics.

So as a whole, as far as pilots are concerned, we would be an improvement if you hired ALL of us. OVERALL.

Then it follows that: if United REALLY IS hiring the cream of the crop from XJT, our performance is going to suffer...and United will ask why.

Thoughts
 

Here's a thought:

Dissension sown in the ranks between just off OE FO who got into Aviate and 15 year CA who didn't.

Or whomever.

Discuss.

Whether it's labeled the "CPP" or "AVIATE", that's all it ever was.

While you beat this drum constantly, it was amazing to watch how many that didn't at all conform to being a good employee at the regional made it though. Multiple training failures, often due to attitude. Terrible attendance record, again due to attitude and not family, FMLA, or whatever other issues.

And there's been more than a few from the CPP (pre AVAITE) as well that were complete head scratchers. It's not a one size fits all, BY ANY MEANS.

Congratulate that Captain for now being a flight instructor for United with no additional pay or benefits.

Can someone explain to me what exactly the benefit of Aviate is to someone who might be looking at a regional with it? Seems to me, you have just as good a chance at United coming from a regional without it.

I guess the guarantee of actually getting an interview. Whereas if you are on the outside you may never get the call.

The benefit is you get a chance, albeit a small one, to go to United years sooner than coming from another regional. Maybe. Essentially those in Aviate can go straight from eighth seat to right seat with 2000 hrs SIC. You probably need 1500-2000 hrs PIC to be competitive OTS. Those who have gotten the yes fresh out of their first type rating can tell you the advantages.

I don’t think it’s even a guarantee. According to the program, candidates are “selected” for an interview based on.....well I’m not sure.

I know of many that applied and never got an interview.

Truth. No difference from applying off the street. Your app may get selected, it may not.

I think the most difficult part is the “Hogan.” I felt I contradicted myself on several answers.

After rereading the documents sent to me it states if your “tbnt” then reapply in 12 months.

I received an Aviate Program Guide from United. The document is dated 1 Nov 2019 and it states:
“Candidates who are unsuccessful in the Aviate application process are encouraged to apply to United via the traditional application process. Additional information about this process can be found at the United pilot career website (https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly/company/career/pilot.html).”

In Section 6 (Application Process) it says:
“Candidates who apply for the University Path, the Commercial Flight Training Path, or the Experience Path and are unsuccessful will have one additional opportunity to apply to Aviate. Such Candidates must wait for 12 calendar months and have accumulated 500 additional flight hours in order to be eligible to apply a second time and may only apply through the Experience Path or UAX Path. If the Candidate is unsuccessful in his or her second application, he or she will no longer be eligible for Aviate. Notwithstanding the foregoing, Candidates are still eligible to apply for employment with United as a pilot via the traditional path irrespective of any prior application or status with Aviate.
B. The UAX Path Candidates applying for the UAX Path may only apply to Aviate once. Candidates who have applied two or more times to a previous United Career Path Program (CPP) and/or through the traditional path will not be eligible to apply to Aviate (e.g., applying once to a previous CPP and once through the traditional path will be considered applying two times).”

Can I apply to Aviate twice at the United Express entry point?

▪ Because there are so many qualified applicants for the United Express entry point, you are only eligible to apply to Aviate once while employed at any UAX partner. If you are unsuccessful, we encourage you to apply to United via the traditional path.




In other words, no.

Where the CPP was a chance, at a chance, at a chance for the guys already on property that had slugged it out through the dark decade. AVIATE is a chance at a chance for the newer guys just starting out.

I’d be curious to know if they completed both the Airline App (and appropriately set the target to Aviate) and the application at

https://ual-pro.taleo.net/careersection/10260/jobdetail.ftl?lang=en&job=DEN00003779

On one of the conference calls the United rep said the intention is to interview all who apply.

At the ALPA Cage Marshall workshop in Chicago on October 9th & 10th, maybe 2 of us were aware of the Taleo application requirement out of the 30 or so folks who were there. That was the day of the first teleconference too though.

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I can't help but think that this is a bit snobbish on Uniteds part. The job itself is nothing special.

They better get rid of this idea that they’re the only major people want to work for. The pilot shortage hasn’t really even got going strong yet. If they are turning down well qualified pilots over purely stupid stuff like the Hogan or something else, they need to re-think their hiring strategy. Why is a captain for a regional flying United owned planes with United ticketed passengers not qualified to fly for United?

I know somebody will say “because they won’t cannibalize their own regionals”. Okay, well guess what..those pilots they turn down can and just might go to one of United’s competitors who doesn’t give a ******* about United’s regional staffing. Instead of gaining a qualified pilot who is already familiar with United’s system, now they’ve potentially lost that pilot to a competitor. Sounds pretty bass ackwards to me.

You guys really need to get over this thinking whether right or wrong. I used to think that way and had a bit of that attitude during my first interview in 2016 with the CPP program. I believe HR can pick up on that and may be one of the reasons I got the TBNT my first go around. I reassessed my thinking for the second go and prepared as though it was an off the street interview and lost the "I deserve to be here because I already fly you pax around attitude".

I agree, at my company, heard we interviewed some from a competitor who displayed an attitude of, "Convince me why I should work here". Needless to say, you can probably figure out how that worked out for them.
However, after the fact, If you got a TBNT, and you ARE flying their passengers, on their airplanes, it IS stupid and valid for some one to vent some steam on a forum.

I didn’t go in their with that attitude. It’s just frustrating how they turn down fully qualified pilots who already fly their metal. Chill.

Then why are so many people so upset about not getting it?

If they would just admit that they are running multiple parallel operations for a financial advantage this would not be as big of a deal. No one likes people who lie with impunity.

Because United is top tier, millionaire career and that the regionals are terrible.

You already knew that though right?

This. Exactly.