Because of my own situation and more or less having to start over and having lost several years of good income, I am not sorry to have the option of working 'til I am over 60.

No, I don't feel sorry for those who mismanaged their finances and now are 59 and panicking. But how about those who work for legacies and in the movement of a pen, lost the pensions to which they were legally entitled? I have a friend at United and he is about 58.5 and fighting hard to keep working. I don't blame him one bit. He would have loved to quit at 60, but the mismanagement and greed at his own company in the upper management has caused the loss of his pension (for the most part) and now he will be forced to keep working at something.

Maybe he will have to find a corporate job, but I hope he can keep working.

FWIW, I would support a compromise for a few years. 62 now. Then in 5 years make it 64. Then in another 5 make it 65. This way there is still some movement and the guys who need to get to work a bit longer.

Anyway, there is no perfect solution.

 

While I certainly don't want to get stuck as a new regional FO any longer than I have to, it sounds like we need to find ways to balance the pain this will bring to the junior guys. My first (and probably unpopular) suggestion would be to balance the pay scale. If we are going to work an extra 5 years, bring the junior pay up so that we can take advantage of the wonder of compounding interest in our savings and(the unpopular part) bring the top down some since you will now have 5 extra years to work. Mobility is going to be somewhat slower so we need to spread the total career earnings out more evenly across the career.

 

cbire,

Excellent idea. Does a 10 year FO really deserve half what a 10 year CA makes? Is she really half as competent? If there is an incident, is the FO really any less screwed than the guy who signs for the plane? Are both thier careers not over? They do the same job, take the same risk, they deserve the same reward.

 

another reason for management to lower the pay scales once again................"hey you guy can fly longer"...............this industry is a ******* Joke, the SOB's who lived the glory days now get to do it for another 5 years, miserable bastards..............


PS. Well Hopefully I will see Johnny Prater in EWR and we can all thank him for "Taking it back"

 

Its funny in EUROPE they changed rule because there was a pilot shortage............................ we all know the story here, no shortage now we can spend more time with miserable QOL and ****ty pay, all so the most senior grumpy old men who came into this knowing they had to retire, can stay longer.........................what a disgrace WHERES SKYHIGH IM WITH HIM THIS INDUSTRY IS NEVER GOING TO GET ANY BETTER

 

I don't agree that the FO and CA should be compensated at the same level just b/c they are both in the jet (so are the FAs and pax for that matter). I do think the large chasm between junior and senior pay has been rationalized over the years by rapid and certain advancement due to things like age 60. If we cannot expect the continual upward mobility due to certain retirements, its entirely possible for a large segment of the population to be stuck in an unpleasant financial spot for a long time. If this is turning into a real job, we need a real job payscale.

Its happening right now in my engineering job. We have a ton of baby boomers who are hanging on b/c they can't afford to retire. The side effect is that there really is no middle to our population. They all got laid off. Only in the last few years have they been hiring new young people. Eventually, there will be a large lurch when the greyhairs retire, but until then, its fairly stagnant. I started out far higher in pay than a regional FO, but a CA catches up pretty quickly. I also work at least 5 days a week, some weekends, and some overtime. A significant portion of my office works every weekend and 60-80 hours a week. A senior regional CA at one of the "better" regionals makes about the same as a senior engineer who didn't play the politics to management.

 

This should be a warning to every regional pilot whose group is in contract negotiations right now...your future earnings are at stake.

FO wages below 60% of CA wages should be totally and wholly unacceptable, and cap the pay scale to top out at 12 years (not 15, or 18, or 20).

 

True,
I guess it'll be nice to at least have the option to croak at the yoke 30 years down the road.

 

I was just talking to my Dad (age 57, 767 capt. Major airline) about this and he shed some interesting light. Most of the people he works with have done a good job saving for retirement over their careers and don't 'need' the extra few years pay. They would rather retire. Also, over 60 they will be dropping like fly's due to failed medicals. Apparently, this already happens frequently before they reach 60.

His best advice is to 'agree' to work to 65; get 'injured' on the job at 60 and collect workers comp for the next 5 years, which is much higher than what pension, if any, you have left. Buy a boat or a new car and enjoy getting back at the sistem that screwed you over for the last 4o years.

 

join the club. I am done at 55 however things turn out. I did not bust my tail through HS and college to get here early to stay longer. Still sucks for the young guys, but I guess it helps those who got the shaft by mgmt... Poor planning for the ones that have to stick around though.

Keep in mind that just because they CAN work to age 65, it does not mean many will. Medical limitations will affect many, as well as many who either don't want to work or PLANNED a retirement and enjoy life after age 60.