Scope impact on regionals
03-17-2021, 05:49 AM
#41
Gets Everyday Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Relaxed
Posts: 6,945
Originally Posted by Excargodog
I’m not responsible for the business dealings of Delta or Jet Blue. A319s have about 95% parts commonality with 320s. Delta has some of the oldest 319s and 320s flying, but they have 100 321s on order so it’s unlikely they will be getting out of the 320 family business. Same for JetBlue. What sort of a deal they got to go with A220s I have no idea. Apparently they either didn’t want to upfront the greater list price for the 319 or it just fit their planned routes better. It clearly is a cheaper aircraft than the 319NEO.
To put it in perspective, A319 has 75 orders. A320 has about 4,000 orders, A321 has nearly 2,000 orders.
The A220 has nearly 500 orders. More than 20 airlines have orders outstanding.
03-17-2021, 06:27 AM
#42
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,503
Originally Posted by TransWorld
Like retail prices in a lot of countries, you pay what you haggle to. Interesting what the list prices are. Not sure they are relevant to the fact that Delta and JetBlue ordered the A220. Lots of things go into the mix besides list price.
To put it in perspective, A319 has 75 orders. A320 has about 4,000 orders, A321 has nearly 2,000 orders.
The A220 has nearly 500 orders. More than 20 airlines have orders outstanding.
To put it in perspective, A319 has 75 orders. A320 has about 4,000 orders, A321 has nearly 2,000 orders.
The A220 has nearly 500 orders. More than 20 airlines have orders outstanding.
Or what percentage of those orders - post COVID - will disappear or be changed?
We live in interesting times...
03-17-2021, 06:35 AM
#43
Porco Rosso
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,522
Originally Posted by Excargodog
Cost is ALWAYS relevant in business. But yeah, who knows what haggling goes on behind the scenes or what routes these aircraft are planned for?
Or what percentage of those orders - post COVID - will disappear or be changed?
We live in interesting times...
Or what percentage of those orders - post COVID - will disappear or be changed?
We live in interesting times...
03-17-2021, 07:20 AM
#44
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,289
Originally Posted by TransWorld
Like retail prices in a lot of countries, you pay what you haggle to. Interesting what the list prices are. Not sure they are relevant to the fact that Delta and JetBlue ordered the A220. Lots of things go into the mix besides list price.
To put it in perspective, A319 has 75 orders. A320 has about 4,000 orders, A321 has nearly 2,000 orders.
The A220 has nearly 500 orders. More than 20 airlines have orders outstanding.
To put it in perspective, A319 has 75 orders. A320 has about 4,000 orders, A321 has nearly 2,000 orders.
The A220 has nearly 500 orders. More than 20 airlines have orders outstanding.
03-17-2021, 07:50 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 2,427
Originally Posted by ninerdriver
FWIW, Delta's A220 C-Series deal was so good that Boeing got the feds involved.
03-17-2021, 07:58 AM
#46
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,503
Originally Posted by rickair7777
It's well known in the industry that most airline operators pay nothing ANYWHERE close close to list prices... those only apply to Arab princes looking for a BJ conversion.
Disregard.
03-17-2021, 10:57 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off Rarely
Joined APC: Feb 2019
Posts: 185
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Generally, airliners vs. car is about a wash on fuel/carbon for a given trip assuming...
1) Traditional IC engine car
2) One pax (driver)
3) Reasonably full plane
If you add additional people to the trip, the car is more efficient. Also hybrid/battery cars are more efficient. An empty plane is not efficient.
A 50-seat RJ is somewhat less efficient than a NB. WB's are more efficient than a NB, although you'd have to compare those to a boat, not a car.
The kicker of course is the time factor. Many, probably the majority, of RJ routes (especially 50-seat) can be driven in a day or less. The real advantage to a lot of short-haul RJ service may be the small-town airport environment... park next to the terminal, walk in, breeze through TSA. A lot of people pay for the RJ connector just to avoid driving, parking, and TSA at the hub. My parents are about a 2-hour drive from the hub, and that's what they prefer. When frequency gets cut (it seems to come and go at their town), they'll drive rather than spend five hours of airport appreciation waiting for their connection. I do the same when I visit, rent and drive the last leg if the connection time is excessive. In the turboprop era there was a flight every couple hours, basically a small prop-job flew back and forth all day.
1) Traditional IC engine car
2) One pax (driver)
3) Reasonably full plane
If you add additional people to the trip, the car is more efficient. Also hybrid/battery cars are more efficient. An empty plane is not efficient.
A 50-seat RJ is somewhat less efficient than a NB. WB's are more efficient than a NB, although you'd have to compare those to a boat, not a car.
The kicker of course is the time factor. Many, probably the majority, of RJ routes (especially 50-seat) can be driven in a day or less. The real advantage to a lot of short-haul RJ service may be the small-town airport environment... park next to the terminal, walk in, breeze through TSA. A lot of people pay for the RJ connector just to avoid driving, parking, and TSA at the hub. My parents are about a 2-hour drive from the hub, and that's what they prefer. When frequency gets cut (it seems to come and go at their town), they'll drive rather than spend five hours of airport appreciation waiting for their connection. I do the same when I visit, rent and drive the last leg if the connection time is excessive. In the turboprop era there was a flight every couple hours, basically a small prop-job flew back and forth all day.
Thanks for the reply. I’ve flown SAN-LAX, COS-DEN, etc a bunch of times in the CRJ 200 and Ive always wondered about this.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
03-18-2021, 06:07 AM
#49
Banned
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 2,012
Re 319 vs 220
depends how many, depends what the fleet looks like. Spirit going from one type to two for incremental flexibility... not worth it.
delta going from 6 types to 7 (or whatever) to get a comprehensive 100 seat solution systemwide... worth it
depends how many, depends what the fleet looks like. Spirit going from one type to two for incremental flexibility... not worth it.
delta going from 6 types to 7 (or whatever) to get a comprehensive 100 seat solution systemwide... worth it
03-18-2021, 10:55 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 407
Originally Posted by TransWorld
Like retail prices in a lot of countries, you pay what you haggle to. Interesting what the list prices are. Not sure they are relevant to the fact that Delta and JetBlue ordered the A220. Lots of things go into the mix besides list price.
To put it in perspective, A319 has 75 orders. A320 has about 4,000 orders, A321 has nearly 2,000 orders.
The A220 has nearly 500 orders. More than 20 airlines have orders outstanding.
To put it in perspective, A319 has 75 orders. A320 has about 4,000 orders, A321 has nearly 2,000 orders.
The A220 has nearly 500 orders. More than 20 airlines have orders outstanding.
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