I guess you get more ballsy when you’ve already lost everything

There are no shortcuts.

Family first.

Know the contract.

Don’t make a lateral move.

Be a pro.

Don’t cross a picket line.

Look long term and plan accordingly.

The company sees you as a number.

Don’t fly sick.

Bid for what you want every time. You might get it.

Be ready for your plans to change.

Start to build a rainy day/furlough fund.

If you are thinking of a change, ask yourself if it will help achieve your long term goals. Does it help your resume?

wrap it up boys /thread

/forum

Time to close this place down.

Develop your hand flying skills early and keep then sharp

Learn the manuals at your airline and stay sharp and up to date

Don't waste flights by cruising and being comfortable, keep challenging yourself, keep asking questions of your captains, use every flight to prepare for upgrade

Take CQ events seriously and prepare like its a type ride

Focus on the flight time first- don't get too distracted with extra curriculars early on. Hit the main benchmarks asap (1000 sic - upgrade - 1000 pic)

As much as you can, be nice and respectful to everyone, don't get caught up in gossip & drama, support your coworkers as best you can- when conflict does happen, deal with it in a way you'll be proud to recall in an interview later


*Probably just expanding on a6td's "be a pro" above

I'll add this one thing.. over time you may see people go off to the Majors before you who came after you or maybe people that were a real "joy' to fly with and it irks you to see them move on to your #1 or whatever, but keep a good attitude. Be happy for everyone who moves on whether junior or senior to you. If you let yourself become cynical you will become the person you would have never wanted to fly with and you will take it to your interviews and hold yourself back even more.

I’m in that boat and everything I’ve seen so far is no. No major airline will take a mil guy with an rATP. I’ve even reached out to a legacy and ULCC and they both replied with no.

Some of the best advice I’ve ever read right here. This is appreciated!

We all know the hiring numbers coming up for next year, but now the question is how many applications are at hand. Years ago I heard people say “the major airlines have 10,000 apps on file!”

What’s the predictions for how many apps are on file to start 2022?

I know some now have less than 10K.

Also it's always mostly the same 10K on file at all of the top-tier. So 10K total to go around, not 10K each.

I believe that it is not the rATP that is the problem, but the restricted part means relatively low flight time, and thus not particularly competitive at a legacy.

Joe

A mil pilot with less than 1500 hours in anything is not going to be particularly competitive at majors.

Possible maybe exception for fighter pilots but even then I couldn't imagine them touching you with less than 1000 and probably need more like 1200+

For mil they also care very much about your career progression, ie lead quals, squadron duties, safety, etc... hard to have a lot of those tickets punched with low time.

Except for lifers, there are about 8K CA with the regionals. Subtracting Mil and 135/91/etc., this fall and 2022 the majors plan to hire about 8K from the regionals, maybe a bit more.

Let you think about the ramifications of this.

They have done all in their power not to hire too many from the regionals. Next year may be the year they are actually forced to absorb a bigger number of the regional feed pilots than in past years. Before covid they hit the tip of the iceberg on hiring, but prior to that it was really a trickle of rj pilots to keep the hope alive to people slogging it out at the regionals that if you "keep doing what you're doing someday you'll get the call".

When I finally made the jump to an ACMI I had offers from every legacy within months of leaving the regionals after applying for years without getting a call. I really believe no longer being a part of their feed helped more than adding a new type rating. Just Imho.

Not only do I think you’re onto something, but I think you nailed it. After some conversations with my new hire classmates during initial I came to the same consensus. I spoke with more than a few who had your scenario. They couldn’t get a call at XYZ regional for years while in the left seat, but a short while after joining an LCC or ACMI, some while still in initial training, “got the call”.

It makes sense, the business model of the legacy airlines depends on regional feed, why intentionally dry it up if you don’t have too.

Why it might be more benificial to leave said regional and work for an LCC while waiting for that legacy to call. Or fly for a regional that only does flying for a legacy that isnt your top choice...aka work at 9E and apply to UAL or AA.

And when they hire from an ACMI/LCC … those carriers backfill without hiring regional pilots?

if the majors are targeting non-regional 121 that’s not a well-considered strategy to reduce regional attrition

It's not a strategy because it doesn't happen.
You just tend to be more competitive when you have something non-regional on your resume. That was the trigger for the call. The HR departments don't have some sinister grand master plans about controlling pilot attrition in different airlines. They just hire the ones that seem the most qualified.

Picking off a pilot from a competitor who just spent 50 to 100 stacks training that pilot isn’t a strategy?

I disagree.

And don’t even get me started with your hilarious quote, “they just hire the most qualified candidates”. So what’s the angle then with the AVIATE and DELTA Propel programs? They’ve been strategically hiring before Covid even started.

Yeah it is. This isn’t an automatic 1 for 1. So we’re just assuming these LCC’s hire their talent from regionals only? You’re under the impression that one regional pilot leaves to said legacy, one regional pilot automatically replaces his/her place at the LCC?

Respectfully disagree.

10 leave, 9 backfill. It’s close enough. The people who go to an ACMI/LCC who have no impact on the regional hiring and retention pool
is pretty small

LCC get majority of their talent from the Regionals while the ACMIs are living off of talent that returned from overseas once they were made redundant (Emirates, Qatar, EVA, Cathay Pacific (this is a big source right now), JetStar)

have you seen MQ's flow to United?

What’s the thought on updating airline apps while in upgrade training to “captain in training”? Or just wait til I’m fully trained?

Wait until you're trained. It would probably be OK, but some people might be annoyed by that and you don't want to offend anyone involved in hiring because it usually only takes one to veto you.

why would someone be annoyed by that? Is it seen as being disingenuous?

I theory, all FOs are captains in training from the time they are hired. The reality is that no one is captain in anything until they pass a fed ride

Not sure that you understand what a "fed ride" is, but that is not correct. Your first leg of OE can be a Fed ride, and it is not an evaluation of you. It is an evaluation of the overall program and the training. You are not a captain until you are signed off after completion of OE and you take out the airplane with an FO.

Looking at possibly going to Women in Aviation conference- Anybody with experience able to speak to how that works to get in front of United/Delta recruiters? Do you just register for a day and then you register separately for the recruiter? And have job fairs been pulling a lot of weight these days?

Well the ngpa earlier this month produced a good amount of on the spot interviews andcjos especially with AA. As for WIA I wanted to attend for the United part but I'll be just short of their hiring mins..heard they won't talk to you unless you meet all their requirements.

So they won’t talk to you unless you have 1000 of turbine time?

There are no written guidelines concerning this, zilch. Just start applying when you are a few months out from reaching your mins. It's really that simple, it's not rocket science here.

Just what I heard. Would that stop me from going and trying anyhow...no way. Still would be worth going too. I wish I could but I'm working.

oops, misread the post. My bad, thought it was another one of those "when I should apply to the Regionals" post.

No I was referring to WIA next month. My apps are already in. Just didn’t want to waste my time if they won’t even talk to us if we are below 1,000 turbine time.

Are "regular" people actually getting hired at United, Delta, AA without degrees?

Delta has interviewed a few recently without a degree. If they were hired I have no idea. As for AA. There have been a few hires without one. I don't know them personally just going off a veterans fb group that's full of pilots I'm part of.

But them being veterans I guess doesn't really make us regular people per say

military pilots or non-aviation vets?

Both


Filler

ok good. I'm a veteran (not a mil pilot), so I didn't know if they even cared about that or not as far as hiring goes

They care just a little bit, it's part of the whole person package. They know you'll show up on time with a clean shave and pressed shirt and won't whine too much. Like anything else, it matters what you did and how well you did it ( regular or elite, O or E, rank vs. time served).