Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Regional
Major buying Bankrupt/ Distressed Regionals >

Major buying Bankrupt/ Distressed Regionals

Notices
Regional Regional Airlines

Major buying Bankrupt/ Distressed Regionals

Old 05-31-2022, 05:29 AM
  #11  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,206
Default

Originally Posted by mkitrn View Post
What stops a major from purchasing a regional to get its pilots if one went bankrupt etc. Does the fee for departure contract stop another major from buying one of these airlines for simply its pilots?
Why go through the expense of purchasing an airline just to capture the pilots when they can simply interview and hire the ones they want?
Hedley is offline  
Old 05-31-2022, 05:31 AM
  #12  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Feb 2022
Posts: 442
Default

Originally Posted by Excargodog View Post
Nobody can benefit from stapling a regional and no major is GOING to staple a regional.
While I tend to agree it won’t happen, I’m not certain. Why are you certain?
Round Luggage is offline  
Old 05-31-2022, 05:44 AM
  #13  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,224
Default

Originally Posted by Round Luggage View Post
While I tend to agree it won’t happen, I’m not certain. Why are you certain?
Why would they bother buying anyone for pilots when they can pick and choose who they want to hire?
sailingfun is offline  
Old 05-31-2022, 06:16 AM
  #14  
Perennial Reserve
 
Excargodog's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,409
Default

Originally Posted by Round Luggage View Post
While I tend to agree it won’t happen, I’m not certain. Why are you certain?
1. There are reasons some regional lifers are regional lifers.
2. They would rather hire ex-military, especially retired ex military, who due to their age will have a lower average wage over the course of their remaining career, already have a pension with offset for inflation, TRICARE for medical coverage, little experience with union negotiating, and have a 20 year history of conformity to the norms of an organization.
3. Their existing pilots would demand expensive concessions on the JCBA to allow it, and certainly flow-down rights in the event of a furlough.
4. It would require a revamping of the training program to operate both airlines under the same certificate. Their training shops are struggling with throughput right now. It would be the worst time in the world to add one or more small Jet types and try to get the FAA to certify the new type - not to mention then having to deal with their existing union on LCA/SLI issues for the new type(s).
5. Why on earth would they want to add another fleet type? They are struggling to deal with the type-swapping caused by early retirements during COVID already.
6. The majors do not - as of yet - actually have a shortage of applicants.

Among others…
Excargodog is offline  
Old 05-31-2022, 06:37 AM
  #15  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Feb 2022
Posts: 442
Default

Originally Posted by Excargodog View Post
1. There are reasons some regional lifers are regional lifers.
2. They would rather hire ex-military, especially retired ex military, who due to their age will have a lower average wage over the course of their remaining career, already have a pension with offset for inflation, TRICARE for medical coverage, little experience with union negotiating, and have a 20 year history of conformity to the norms of an organization.
3. Their existing pilots would demand expensive concessions on the JCBA to allow it, and certainly flow-down rights in the event of a furlough.
4. It would require a revamping of the training program to operate both airlines under the same certificate. Their training shops are struggling with throughput right now. It would be the worst time in the world to add one or more small Jet types and try to get the FAA to certify the new type - not to mention then having to deal with their existing union on LCA/SLI issues for the new type(s).
5. Why on earth would they want to add another fleet type? They are struggling to deal with the type-swapping caused by early retirements during COVID already.
6. The majors do not - as of yet - actually have a shortage of applicants.

Among others…
Ok I see we are looking at the transaction completely differently, I’d say here would only be one company post transaction. A non-hub and spoke airline would not want a “regional” like you say.
Round Luggage is offline  
Old 05-31-2022, 07:31 AM
  #16  
Perennial Reserve
 
Excargodog's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,409
Default

Originally Posted by Round Luggage View Post
Ok I see we are looking at the transaction completely differently, I’d say here would only be one company post transaction. A non-hub and spoke airline would not want a “regional” like you say.
One company after the transaction REQUIRES all of the above to be accomplished, plus DOJ approval and an agreed upon SLI. Given that the SLI might involve the transaction involving McCaskill-Bond to try to avoid a direct staple:

https://www.mondaq.com/unitedstates/...l-bond-statute

the major union is going to do everything they possibly can to stop it from happening. A guy flying 777s has zero interest in allowing himself to be displaced by someone who has been flying CRJ-200s for the last 20 years.
Excargodog is offline  
Old 05-31-2022, 08:30 AM
  #17  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Apr 2020
Posts: 2,174
Default

Originally Posted by Excargodog View Post
One company after the transaction REQUIRES all of the above to be accomplished, plus DOJ approval and an agreed upon SLI. Given that the SLI might involve the transaction involving McCaskill-Bond to try to avoid a direct staple:

https://www.mondaq.com/unitedstates/...l-bond-statute

the major union is going to do everything they possibly can to stop it from happening. A guy flying 777s has zero interest in allowing himself to be displaced by someone who has been flying CRJ-200s for the last 20 years.
A major also would rather hire those guys on year one pay, rather than whatever longevity they have at Regional X.
PilotBases is offline  
Old 05-31-2022, 09:37 AM
  #18  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Feb 2022
Posts: 442
Default

Originally Posted by Excargodog View Post
One company after the transaction REQUIRES all of the above to be accomplished, plus DOJ approval and an agreed upon SLI. Given that the SLI might involve the transaction involving McCaskill-Bond to try to avoid a direct staple:

https://www.mondaq.com/unitedstates/...l-bond-statute

the major union is going to do everything they possibly can to stop it from happening. A guy flying 777s has zero interest in allowing himself to be displaced by someone who has been flying CRJ-200s for the last 20 years.
Your list happens with any M&A if it was so prohibitive as you say then there would be no M&A which we know is far from the case with airlines. Your point about the SLI law is interesting because there is no precedent with it, we don’t know how it will look when used. So you jumped from no-staples to regional lifers displacing 777 captains, yet the law you posted doesn’t say no-staple and it doesn’t say 777 captains get replaced, it says “fair and equitable”. “Fair and equitable” is very wide, especially if both parties agree.
Again I wouldn’t bet on MESA, RP, OO being bought and integrated, but it could happen.
Round Luggage is offline  
Old 05-31-2022, 11:30 AM
  #19  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Feb 2019
Posts: 195
Default

Why can’t you liquidate the regional in pieces and sell off the labor component in bankruptcy court using the judge to break all the contracts?
mkitrn is offline  
Old 05-31-2022, 12:07 PM
  #20  
Perennial Reserve
 
Excargodog's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,409
Default

Originally Posted by Round Luggage View Post
Your list happens with any M&A if it was so prohibitive as you say then there would be no M&A which we know is far from the case with airlines. Your point about the SLI law is interesting because there is no precedent with it, we don’t know how it will look when used. So you jumped from no-staples to regional lifers displacing 777 captains, yet the law you posted doesn’t say no-staple and it doesn’t say 777 captains get replaced, it says “fair and equitable”. “Fair and equitable” is very wide, especially if both parties agree.
Again I wouldn’t bet on MESA, RP, OO being bought and integrated, but it could happen.
Anything COULD happen. But it won’t for the reasons given. And you need to better understand McCaskill Bond. It was expressly designed to prevent stapling, and no stapling has happened since it became law.
Excargodog is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
skyshadows74
Regional
11
08-10-2018 09:00 AM
TheWeatherman
Regional
20
08-10-2017 09:12 AM
Skyhawk92
Career Questions
6
11-23-2014 06:56 AM
Flyby1206
Major
9
06-17-2009 10:23 AM
Marty MCfly
Regional
72
04-16-2008 07:44 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices