I am not saying the pilots didnt screw up- they did without question and this black cloud will stay over 9E forever, BUT the stupidity that led them into the flameout cannot be blamed for there attempted recovery. They did follow the current procedures (at the time) for the flameout- which did not include diving the plane to 300Kts to keep the turbines spinning fast and the ITT down, the procedures at the time called to maintain a slower speed and slow the decent in the idea of giving the crew time to head towards an airfield and have as much time as humanly possible to get the engines back. I am not defending these guys- what they did was wrong on many levels, but if you notice the current procedures for flameouts at all operators involve getting the speed up so the engines dont core lock. Learning from others mistakes in the big part of aviation.

I do think though that in the next few years there will be an accident (not hoping, just thinking) and it will come down to inexperienced pilots. I do not know how a 1500 hour guy with 500 in type could be a CA.. I have right at the 1500/500 (not upgrading for a while so you dont need to worry) and I feel very comfortable and competent in the airplane in addition to the duties outside the airplane (such as knowing where we are taxiing, when things don't look right, etc) but I learn soo much every flight not just from the flight experience, but from the captains I fly with. After another year I think I will be ready, but right now I am still learning. I could only imagine dealing with DCA, LGA, JFK, PHL as a 250 hour FO- maybe that is why we hear the stories... I do give the guys credit though for making it through training, OE, and adapting to the line- thats a big jump.

 

I can tell you first hand that students are starting to go through training with the mindset that they can go to a regional as soon as they get their commercial. I flew with a guy last night who said " Hell no, I'm not getting my CFI, I'm gonna just get some multi time and go to Colgan" <-- (honest thats what he said)

I can already tell I'm learning a lot more since I started instructing. You start to pay attention to the details when your not flying the plane. I'm enjoying it....for now.

 

There have been 1500hr captains at the "regionals" for a long time - they were just in a Beech 99, 1900, Jetstream or maybe a Saab. Even saying that, I doubt there will be many 1500hr captains in an RJ, even if upgrade minimums are that low.

My very first leg of IOE was PHL-ATL. Thank goodness I had been into busy airports before in a previous job, otherwise I can see how it would be intimidating dealing with the rapid-fire pace of calls and complex airport layouts. For somebody that hadn't been into anything bigger than a semi-busy Class C I could understand some major problems. Hopefully folks in that situation are VERY fast learners, otherwise they'll have no place in the cockpit of a 121 airliner.

Every time I'm waiting to depart 15 or 19 at DCA and watch an RJ make the turn at Rosslyn at what appears to be 2000' I wonder if there is a low-time FO at the controls...then I watch a CAL guppy do the exact same thing and realize no matter what seat we're in or what airplane we fly, we're always learning.

 

Your a good man, CFI'ing is the best flying your ever going to do, its always the guys that did very little 91 flying that are complete TOOLS in the airplane or in the crew rooms

 

Ok, let's recall the "experienced" pilots at Delta Connection... I believe it was low time captain/copilot that launched in "the wrong general direction." I've been there... it's pretty obvious when your compass doesn't match up... and double flame-outs happen very rarely... but when they it's typically at high altitudes, in equipment at it's limitations, and with poorly trained pilots. Yes, people will be bending airplanes left and right, now that the minimums are the LOWEST they can possibly be! Just take a look at all the flight instructional accidents that happen in C172's and interpolate a little bit in the CRJ/ERJ and there you have a very uncomfortable feeling. I remember when I refused to sign off a CFI/MEI for his CFII checkride because he couldn't LAND THE STUPID SKYHAWK. Come on!!!!

 

Diddo, completely agree... instructing is the way to learn how to actually FLY an airplane. You really do learn a lot from teaching people how to fly. LoL It's funny but it's completely true, and it's a lot more safe in my eyes.

 

Both pilots on the comair flight had been with the company for years. Neither of them were low time. They also had adequate rest.

 

Please don't be so ignorant...this statement is borderline stupid.

The crew of Comair 5191 was FAR from being a couple of inexperienced wunderpilots, and thinking otherwise means you didn't read the NTSB reports. The captain had been at Comair around 7 years, had over 1500 hours of CL65 PIC and double that total in the airplane. The FO had been at Comair over 2.5 years.

They made an extremely tragic mistake at the end of a very long accident chain...but to claim they were inexperienced is incorrect at best and naively foolish at worst.

 

High time or Low time....
You either washout during training or you don't.

Some people can do this...others are less fortunate

 

The upgrade mins is not as big a deal.... ATP mins? XJT is no different. There are very few that upgrade at these mins due to seniority.

I went through TSA training as my first experience and at low time. It was not bad, in fact it was very thorough, in-depth training. No, we didn't have FTD's like XJT does, but I felt prepared when I started doing IOE. XJT training is more streamlined and operation oriented.... TSA training is in my opinion quite good....id like to hear from anyone who thinks otherwise....

Fast forward, I am now an instructor at XJT. I have without a doubt seen a decrease in basic knowledge in new hires that come through training..... It is a problem most regionals now face..... People gain ratings at many different places and quality of training is on a wide scale..... I have some people who impress me. I have others that can not identify a proper hold entry.

I have seen 1500 hour CFIs come in and not know basic concepts. I've had 800 hour folks that leave places like PDT, TSA, MESA and with their limited experience EXCEL in our training. Yes, hours will give you some experiences, but hours is not everything.

In Europe they put 300 hour pilots in the right seat of A320s.... Guess what, at 1500 hours they have 1200 in the plane...... would you rather fly with that pilot as captain or one with 2000 hours and 100 in type? Time is not everything..... it is definitley a factor but is not everything.

I would offer myself as an example of this since I was hired at TSA with low time: 650/50 (high compared to todays standards). You would still consider me a low time pilot.....but I now at XJT have 500 in type and have been instructing for 10 months.....You'd be surprised how little some "high-time" pilots know. Some are EXCELLENT, but others are well below par.