TSA' Ridiculously low minimums
07-02-2007 | 07:56 AM
#41
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From: E170 FO
There is a big difference from 650 and 250. You probably had to work as a pilot and deal with the real world at least somewhat before you got to 650. I think the problem is the people who walk from flight school to the jet. Unlike the military, our training system does not provide a consistent product.
07-02-2007 | 08:07 AM
#42
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I can tell you first hand that students are starting to go through training with the mindset that they can go to a regional as soon as they get their commercial. I flew with a guy last night who said " Hell no, I'm not getting my CFI, I'm gonna just get some multi time and go to Colgan" <-- 
(honest thats what he said)
(honest thats what he said)
07-02-2007 | 08:10 AM
#43
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From: A-320
07-02-2007 | 08:14 AM
#44
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Originally Posted by Ellen
Entitlement. That is what the younger generation preaches. In my generation, you had to perform to get ahead, now it's expected despite lack of qualifications, skill, etc.
In my generation it is unethical to benefit from a rule being one way your entire career then lobby to change it when it becomes most advantageous to you...guess nobody told the boomers that about Age 60, eh?
07-02-2007 | 08:15 AM
#45
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From: Heavies
Ok, let's recall the "experienced" pilots at Delta Connection... I believe it was low time captain/copilot that launched in "the wrong general direction." I've been there... it's pretty obvious when your compass doesn't match up... and double flame-outs happen very rarely... but when they it's typically at high altitudes, in equipment at it's limitations, and with poorly trained pilots. Yes, people will be bending airplanes left and right, now that the minimums are the LOWEST they can possibly be! Just take a look at all the flight instructional accidents that happen in C172's and interpolate a little bit in the CRJ/ERJ and there you have a very uncomfortable feeling. I remember when I refused to sign off a CFI/MEI for his CFII checkride because he couldn't LAND THE STUPID SKYHAWK. Come on!!!!
Everyone is right do some research before you speak.........
07-02-2007 | 08:16 AM
#46
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From: A-320
The upgrade mins is not as big a deal.... ATP mins? XJT is no different. There are very few that upgrade at these mins due to seniority.
I went through TSA training as my first experience and at low time. It was not bad, in fact it was very thorough, in-depth training. No, we didn't have FTD's like XJT does, but I felt prepared when I started doing IOE. XJT training is more streamlined and operation oriented.... TSA training is in my opinion quite good....id like to hear from anyone who thinks otherwise....
Fast forward, I am now an instructor at XJT. I have without a doubt seen a decrease in basic knowledge in new hires that come through training..... It is a problem most regionals now face..... People gain ratings at many different places and quality of training is on a wide scale..... I have some people who impress me. I have others that can not identify a proper hold entry.
I have seen 1500 hour CFIs come in and not know basic concepts. I've had 800 hour folks that leave places like PDT, TSA, MESA and with their limited experience EXCEL in our training. Yes, hours will give you some experiences, but hours is not everything.
In Europe they put 300 hour pilots in the right seat of A320s.... Guess what, at 1500 hours they have 1200 in the plane...... would you rather fly with that pilot as captain or one with 2000 hours and 100 in type? Time is not everything..... it is definitley a factor but is not everything.
I would offer myself as an example of this since I was hired at TSA with low time: 650/50 (high compared to todays standards). You would still consider me a low time pilot.....but I now at XJT have 500 in type and have been instructing for 10 months.....You'd be surprised how little some "high-time" pilots know. Some are EXCELLENT, but others are well below par.
I went through TSA training as my first experience and at low time. It was not bad, in fact it was very thorough, in-depth training. No, we didn't have FTD's like XJT does, but I felt prepared when I started doing IOE. XJT training is more streamlined and operation oriented.... TSA training is in my opinion quite good....id like to hear from anyone who thinks otherwise....
Fast forward, I am now an instructor at XJT. I have without a doubt seen a decrease in basic knowledge in new hires that come through training..... It is a problem most regionals now face..... People gain ratings at many different places and quality of training is on a wide scale..... I have some people who impress me. I have others that can not identify a proper hold entry.
I have seen 1500 hour CFIs come in and not know basic concepts. I've had 800 hour folks that leave places like PDT, TSA, MESA and with their limited experience EXCEL in our training. Yes, hours will give you some experiences, but hours is not everything.
In Europe they put 300 hour pilots in the right seat of A320s.... Guess what, at 1500 hours they have 1200 in the plane...... would you rather fly with that pilot as captain or one with 2000 hours and 100 in type? Time is not everything..... it is definitley a factor but is not everything.
I would offer myself as an example of this since I was hired at TSA with low time: 650/50 (high compared to todays standards). You would still consider me a low time pilot.....but I now at XJT have 500 in type and have been instructing for 10 months.....You'd be surprised how little some "high-time" pilots know. Some are EXCELLENT, but others are well below par.
07-02-2007 | 08:24 AM
#47
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I'd be more than happy to give 5 years to age 65 if I knew my Civil Liberties were going to be protected by my country. Cheap Price to pay. In addition, back when the rule was made, there was extremely LESS medical information regarding the ability of anyone over the age of 60 to operate a plane with PAX on them.
07-02-2007 | 08:27 AM
#48
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I know you're just trying to make a point, Saab...but wouldn't 35 kts violate your crosswind limitation? I sure know it would on the CRJ. Sure the airplane can handle it, but I'm not a test pilot, don't get paid enough even if I was, and if something gets bent my ass gets hung out to dry by the company & FAA and the union can't do anything to protect me because I knowingly violated a limitation.
THAT is what low-time newbies need to learn even more than proficiently hand-flying the airplane...you're a professional aviator and expected to get the job done in adverse conditions, but NEVER at the expense of safety. Never allow yourself to get pushed into a situation that is truly unsafe, but don't squeal like a schoolgirl at the sight of lines of TRWs, accumulating ice, or an 1800RVR approach. After all, we get paid to be conservative and mitigate risks, not take them...
07-02-2007 | 08:29 AM
#49
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Or nobody told your illustrious leader "George Bush" when he tries to circumvent Legal Action by citing "Executive Privileges" in the interest of Homeland Security in all his actions that "He" wants no one to know about.
I'd be more than happy to give 5 years to age 65 if I knew my Civil Liberties were going to be protected by my country. Cheap Price to pay. In addition, back when the rule was made, there was extremely LESS medical information regarding the ability of anyone over the age of 60 to operate a plane with PAX on them.
I'd be more than happy to give 5 years to age 65 if I knew my Civil Liberties were going to be protected by my country. Cheap Price to pay. In addition, back when the rule was made, there was extremely LESS medical information regarding the ability of anyone over the age of 60 to operate a plane with PAX on them.
Your personal political beliefs don't have anything whatsoever to do with generational entitlement.
07-02-2007 | 08:34 AM
#50
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From: CRJ-900 FO, Supra left seat
I would have to say that if you line up on the wrong runway it should feel wrong, and if you don't know how to tell the difference (or just opt not to check) with your instruments, then you, my friend, are either careless or inexperienced.
If you don't know how to follow procedures during an emergency (as previously stated), and subsequently GLIDE FROM 41,000 FT to the ground, which by the way takes a very long time, even at 300 knots, you are either inexperienced or careless.
Either way, both crews were one or the other. If they were rested or not, experienced or not, they should have been able to recognize and resolve the problem. Neither crew did so.
Now the next person can contest how long it takes to glide from 41,000 or that they didn't glide... let's put it this way, they didn't follow procedure, and had ample time to correct the situation.
If you don't know how to follow procedures during an emergency (as previously stated), and subsequently GLIDE FROM 41,000 FT to the ground, which by the way takes a very long time, even at 300 knots, you are either inexperienced or careless.
Either way, both crews were one or the other. If they were rested or not, experienced or not, they should have been able to recognize and resolve the problem. Neither crew did so.
Now the next person can contest how long it takes to glide from 41,000 or that they didn't glide... let's put it this way, they didn't follow procedure, and had ample time to correct the situation.
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