No, I am sure that truckers and factory workers face layoffs and pay cuts as well. The big difference is that they didn't pay 150K in training and education ,waste four years in college plus a decade in a crummy regional for the privilege of being downsized at middle age.

In addition most other careers have the benefit of being able to transfer their accumulated knowledge and experiences into other lines of work and possibly even better jobs. Airline pilots are all nearly worthless outside of the seniority system.

SkyHigh

 

Re-Read the entire first column on the second page. Though Les does not include any fire and brimstone he does not pull any punches as well. He also states:

"I won't discuss any details of the other less quantifiable negative issues of the profession. they aren't necessary for this discussion."

Though he doesn't linger long on the topic I don't know how else he could clearly state his disapproval of the industry without using vulgar terms. Sometimes it seems that we all have become desensitised to all the negative statements to the point that for most it has become background noise.

Skyhigh

 

That's not aviation, that's life

 

Bla bla bla, all I hear is background noise.

 

Well, first off, four years of college is only a waste if you get an aviation degree. You should get a degree in something you can fall back on. For instance, I got a nursing degree. If I get laid off, I can get a hospital job making $50/hr in a day. If I lose my medical, I would go back to school to be a nurse anesthetist. Getting an aviation degree is a waste. It would be nice to get the word out there to kids starting college to ABSOLUTELY NOT get an aviation degree.

If you paid $150K in flight training and college, you are not very smart IMO. I think college cost me $17K and flight training was around $30-35K.

If you don't live like a rock star and have something to fall back on, you shouldn't be financially devastated if you lose your job. If you CHOOSE to live like a rock star, spend all your per diem at work eating out (because it's humiliating to you to bring your food to work), blow your cash when you are making it....well, then it's hard to feel for someone like that when they lose their job. The only thing that's guaranteed in this life is death and taxes. You can't live your life looking for the 100% guarantee because you will never find it.

I do agree that the seniority system sucks when you lose your job. It sure is nice when you are senior though!

 

I only spent 32,000 for my four year degree. That was in 1996. It is now 89,000 for a four year degree, in state. 120,000 for out of state. If I was graduating high school today, I would not be going to college where I did. I also would not be a pilot if I had to pay today's prices for my ratings. I paid 40.00/hr for a 172, it costs around 95.00/hr now. The barriers to entry are increasing without a corresponding reward.

IronWalt's example of 19,000 in 1987 would be about 34,000 today. Prices have more than doubled for everything from cars, houses, rent, college, ratings, etc. Everything costs more but the pay in our industry is stagnant or going backwards (legacies compared to pre-2001 pay). Skyhigh has a point, if I was looking at getting into it today I would have to pass.

 

Skyhigh. If you're intent is to educate newbies on the downside of the career, the regional and major forums are not your target audience. The flight training and flight school forums would be your best bet.

Then, you end your commentary with "You may now return to your previous state of denial"

I see that as flamebait and we don't need that in this forum.

 

Quag,
I am in a similar situation to you, I am wondering how old you were when you got your first airline job and how long it has taken you to progress to 65k.


"have an airline job, a bachelor of science (non-aviation), and I should be making 65K+ in a year. Many of my friends work 8-5, 5+ days a week, and they are earing incomes of $28K-$55K.

The only debt I have is the credit card debt I inherited by getting married, and that will be gone in 2 months. I work less than 15 days a month, and average over 20 nights a month at home.

This is not a bad job at all (depending on who you work for, of course), I have zero regrets about my career choice or the path that I took to get here. My feeling is that many people choose the wrong method for entering into this profession. IMHO, aviation degrees and pilot factories are completely worthless. Get a scholarship, get a non-aviation degree, get a decent part time job, live as cheaply as possible, and learn how to fly airplanes. Get your CFI as soon as possible and get paid to fly. The way regionals are hiring, you will be eligible for a job before you finish college (that does not mean you shouldn't finish college). The total process will take longer, as it did for me, but in the end you will come out way ahead. You have 1/10th the debt of an average regional FO, and you will have a fall back degree in case you lose your medical.

-Quag"

 

Excellent points.

Reason, however will get you nowhere in a discussion with Mr Happy.

 

college = free ( scholarship )
Flight School = FREE ( Courtesy of Uncle Sam )

Must be a free roll for me... .LOLOLOLOL