The only QOL in this business has been with those with HIGH senority numbers ...I dont care if it was 10 years ago,,, or 30 years ago. I personally know guys who rode side saddle for over 20 years because of NO movement in their companies and retired as FO's. Pay and working conditions have been a moving target for 30 years. Maybe they were the glory years but the sitting around complaining about how things were so much better THEN as to now does nobody any good. If you dont think there were guys 30 years ago who had dreams of being an AIRLINE pilot but who just couldnt get there for what ever reason and was stuck flying smaller airplanes for crap pay most of their life you are kidding yourself. Its nice to put on the rose colored glasses and think that every guy who got into aviation in the 50 or 60 or 70's ended up in the left seat of a major carrier working 8 days a month and making a kings ransom but it didnt happen then,,,, and its not happening now. Being in the right place at the right time ( its called luck ) is about 80% of this business.

So much of these discussions revolve around pay and QOL and while I believe and want for my self something that is reasonable, its also fair to say that may be different for other people. Im a military trained pilot thats no secret, and I certainly didnt join the military for great pay and QOL 20 years ago, I did it because I wanted to fly and those other things were secondary. The pay was a fair wage after a few years ( sorta like now ) but the QOL well it pretty much BLEW. I got our after 7 years for many reasons the most important of which were NOT money or QOL. I knew going in those things would suck... they did... so there was nothing to ***** about in my opinion.

I am not saying things shouldnt get better or that the Unions and the various pilot groups shouldnt work for better contracts with better wages and better work rules. We should and they should but this is a profession you better really love if you want to get it in. If its all about flying the biggest piece of equipment you can to make the most bucks you can maybe you should have chosen another profession. Or in the case of those not in yet... chose another profession.

I wish everyone the best of luck. Unlike SKY I believe there is still something worthwhile in this industry, is it an easy road...NO... but I dont think it ever was really in the first place.

 

Whoops, I have failed miserably at those two things

 

Everyone likes to pull out their personal balance sheet when it comes to college and flight training expenses.

I paid $13,800 in the late 1980's for a commercial MEL plus CFI-Instrument and MEL ratings. I worked my way through college and made most of the money for my ratings from a 1 acre piece of land that I bought on a river and sold three years later for a nice profit. Upon graduation I owed just over $3000 in student loans. Not bad.

The point is that even though grandma may have forked over the cash to fund your training it still cost you. In my case I could have used all that cash I wasted on college and flight training on buying a paid off house that would be worth a heck of a lot today. In the end the opportunity cost is the same for everyone. If grandma could be talked into paying for 6 months at ATP then she also could have been talked into a lot of things.

What could you have done with those lost years and the money wasted on flight training? Dreams are great but they also can ruin people.

SkyHigh

 

What you are saying is to take your beating and be quiet about it? No one here expected it to be an easy road however there had better be a rainbow at the end. Well there isn't one anymore.

Skyhigh

 

And you are on this forum because????????????????????????????:conf used:


http://www.realestateforum.com/ check it out......

 

Another angle on this that no one is mentioning is the effect a declining General Aviation market has on making flight training more expensive. When I worked my way through night school, my employer paid for the degree and I my aspirations to fly airplanes was mostly paid for by buying a Piper Colt, selling for a profit, a Twin Commanche, sold at a profit and partnering up on several other airplanes.

My last airplane was a Bonanza. It was a great airplane, but with fuel over $4.50 a gallon and maintenance bills high enough to cover my mechanic's insurance, I found myself more and more telling my wife "no we can't afford to do that trip."

A pilot can't fund his training by buying and selling airplanes in today's market. I don't know how many did, but many close friends now at Delta, FedEx and UPS did exactly what I did. Candidly, I thought the $20,000 I spent over the years to get my ATP (which was required to interview at ASA back then) was a lot and barely worth it.

But like others mentioned, flying is a labor of love. You do the studying, the long hours away from home and the 05:00 duty ins because there is nothing as good as climbing through a cloud deck at around 3,000 FPM in your jet, while sipping your coffee and eating a brownie that your Flight Attendant brought you from the batch she made last night. Flying to Mexico is beautiful and fun - (even though it is so close people are walking it).

How these pilots coming out of the puppy mills "love" flying, I don't know. Training is training - and flying with someone always correcting you, or giving you their opinion on how you could do better is no fun.

As a career, flying is a poor choice. Even flying for a growing mainline carrier I wonder if I should stay with it - but - I always stick around waiting for the next big thing, maybe an aircraft order, maybe a better contract, maybe a better schedule next month. As you get older you also start to wonder about your abilities to pass medicals and pass checkrides. Your friends, especially your friends that smoke and drink a little too much tend to begin dropping out around age 40.

If someone makes the commitment to spend over 100K on flight training, they had better also make the commitment to keep themselves healthy and out of trouble. It is going to take a long and successful career to break even on that kind of investment.

 

I can’t give specifics; I wish to keep some anonymity here on the forums due to employer employee relations i.e. (union support).

I found a market that is not being capitalized on, it will be a matter of time until others move in and dilute the market. Until then I will ride the wave. Personally I have a plan to retire in 10 years. It doesn’t include my current business.

I get so tired of folks making stupid decisions in the name of chasing their dream. If all you want to do is fly for an airline, then go through the military get your training paid for and skip the regionals. Flight school is not a wise investment today period. Chase your dream, but use some common sense.

 

It's the early 20's thing Saab. I did so much stupid crap moneywise in my early 20's, I regret it now. Boy, was I stupid. I could probably have $100K in cash if I didn't blow my cash on stupid crap. If I could just go back and know then what I know now.....

 

Very true. Pilot jobs pay less today, but are far more available. In the "glory days", there were few regional jobs, and the major jobs were very hard to get and very easy to lose (especially when deregulation hit the industry). It's like a casino that loosened up the slot machines but reduced the payoffs.

 

Understood. Good luck to you.