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Originally Posted by RiddleEagle18
(Post 345957)
I have a logical solution to this seniority based call out and the problems it causes at comair. If they know about the trip atleast 9-12hrs before report time it is immediately assigned to a long call 2 or long call 1 bypassing less senior pilots on short call. If the trip is know less than 9 hours before call out it is assigned to a short call. A long call pilot will also never be allowed to sit ready reserve. I think we can all agree that is a fair way to process the reserve and if we give the company some ability to use reserves efficiently scenarios like the 1 mentioned above wouldn't happen.
Bid to fly would be honored on on the rundown immediately after the SAW closes so L1 and L2 would not be the only ones receiving trips after the saw initially closes. After the initial rundown bid to fly will only be honored within your respective group.(Long call or short call) |
Originally Posted by CRJDriver
(Post 345963)
That is so stupid! Most of the flights are out by 9 p.m. anyway. Unless they give you a ferry, etc.
Also, I don't understand why you guys are accepting these ready reserves. From reading the contract and talking to other pilots/ALPA reps., L2 window is 0700-0900 & 1700-1900. If they want you to sit a 2100-2400 ready, they need to change your window to A7, otherwise it is an illegal assignement. Again, I'm not doing anymore readies outside of my reserve window. I'm surprised this hasn't come up earlier and ALPA hasn't done anything about this, even though they know about it. Again, from the contract... b. A Ready Reserve period will not be scheduled to exceed six (6) hours and will be scheduled within the fourteen (14) hour reserve period. d. A pilot on LC1 or LC2 will be subject to the same rules as a SC reserve pilot except as follows: (1) An assignment awarded to a LC1 reserve pilot will not have a report requirement earlier than nine (9) hours from the time the LC1 reserve pilot is notified of the assignment. This nine (9) hour period will be utilized as a required rest period prior to a LC1 reserve pilot reporting for duty. (2) Between the hours of 1400 and 1600 hours the day before a single, or group of, reserve days, a LC1 reserve pilot will contact the Company, one time, for an assignment. (3) If given an assignment in accordance with paragraph (2), above, the LC1 reserve pilot will be considered on rest until the report time of the assignment. (4) A LC1 reserve pilot will be available for assignment by the Company in the LC1 reserve window of 0500 and 1500 hours on each day of LC1 except when on required rest. If the LC1 reserve pilot is on required rest, when the rest period is complete, the LC1 reserve pilot will be available for any remaining LC1 window on that day. (5) After completing the reserve window at 1500 hours a LC1 pilot without an assignment will be released from responsibility to the Company until the next LC1 window. Know your contract inside and out. We still have one of the best regional contracts around when it comes to work rules. We pilots are the first line of defense of our contract. You can't expect a new scheduler to know what they can and can't do to you; and you can't expect that management will adhere to it. They will bend, break and otherwise go around the contract to keep the operation running "efficiently". If it is against the contract, tell the scheduler. If they disagree, ask to talk to a chief pilot. If they demand that you fly it (which is rare, because they are now sticking their necks out), accept the assignment under protest and call a union rep immediately. 99.9% of the time, they can get you out of it. If you still end up flying it, file a grievance. The only way to stop contract violations is to not allow them to happen to begin with. If you let them get away with it once, they will continue to do it and then start to violate other areas of the contract. |
Originally Posted by RJtrashPilot
(Post 345971)
The only way to stop contract violations is to not allow them to happen to begin with. If you let them get away with it once, they will continue to do it and then start to violate other areas of the contract.
Also, if your scheduler gives you crap and you know you are right, quote the exact page and paragraph from the contract, most of the time they'll change it, if not ask for a Chief. Always works for me. Spread the word about the ready reserves. It makes me sick to see guys sit ready at 3 a.m. when their window says L1. |
Originally Posted by RJtrashPilot
(Post 345971)
Thank God! Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one around here that seems to know my contract.
Know your contract inside and out. We still have one of the best regional contracts around when it comes to work rules. We pilots are the first line of defense of our contract. You can't expect a new scheduler to know what they can and can't do to you; and you can't expect that management will adhere to it. They will bend, break and otherwise go around the contract to keep the operation running "efficiently". If it is against the contract, tell the scheduler. If they disagree, ask to talk to a chief pilot. If they demand that you fly it (which is rare, because they are now sticking their necks out), accept the assignment under protest and call a union rep immediately. 99.9% of the time, they can get you out of it. If you still end up flying it, file a grievance. The only way to stop contract violations is to not allow them to happen to begin with. If you let them get away with it once, they will continue to do it and then start to violate other areas of the contract. At the same time though, knowing your contract is like knowing the FARs. Sometimes you don't really "know" it until you live it. Thats why I like to hear people ask questions about the contract. Or better yet, when people have an experience with a section of the contract and share it with the rest of us. On the ALPA website there used to be a weekly or monthly example of some area of the contract based on (I assume) an actual occurrence. It was great information for new pilots as well as a refresher for seasoned veterans. Anone know what happened to that? |
It is cumbersome to carry with everything else, but I carry my contract with me on trips in my flight kit. If something happens mid trip that I may need to reference the contract on, I have it right there.
Additionally, I always hear pilots talk about holding the company to the contract "unless it benefits you otherwise". Meaning, if breaking the contract would be in the pilot's favor or best interest, then go ahead and break it. This, in my opinion, is also unacceptable. We pilots should be responsible for adhering to the contract as much as the company should. If we start breaking it, but then gripe when the company breaks it, doesn't that make us hypocrites? There should be no double standard. |
Originally Posted by RJtrashPilot
(Post 345983)
It is cumbersome to carry with everything else, but I carry my contract with me on trips in my flight kit. If something happens mid trip that I may need to reference the contract on, I have it right there.
Additionally, I always hear pilots talk about holding the company to the contract "unless it benefits you otherwise". Meaning, if breaking the contract would be in the pilot's favor or best interest, then go ahead and break it. This, in my opinion, is also unacceptable. We pilots should be responsible for adhering to the contract as much as the company should. If we start breaking it, but then gripe when the company breaks it, doesn't that make us hypocrites? There should be no double standard. |
ALPA is currently looking into filing a group grievance about the ready reserve issue. You can, and ALPA is requesting, that if you arent on probation that you RESPECTFULLY refuse the assignment and have a chief pilot order you to do it and then do the assignment. That way there is documentation that the contract has been violated if they chose to file a grievance.
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Originally Posted by RiddleEagle18
(Post 345997)
ALPA is currently looking into filing a group grievance about the ready reserve issue.
Originally Posted by cessna157
(Post 345947)
I got hosed on L2 today. 8:55 they call me to come sit ready at 21:00. So I have a 3hr ready, but will get paid 4:20, plus I have a trip tomorrow. This makes my head hurt. Sometimes seniorty based call-outs override logic
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Originally Posted by flycrj200
(Post 345995)
If you carry a laptop with you, you can download the contract from the ALPA website.
I vowed to never take my laptop with me again, and I have not done so yet. Way too much personal info on there that would be of great value to an identity thief. Tax returns, SSNs, etc... I manage just fine in the hotel business centers. |
Just another day at Comedy Air...
I had this out and back on my line for quite some time now. I decide to check the DL web site to see which gate the flight is going to be going out of. To my surprise the flight does not operate on a Saturday, as a matter of fact there are no Comair flights going to this destination on a Saturday. So, I check the DL schedule and TravelNet to just to make sure, and they are showing the same thing. I decide to call dispatch to see what the hell is going on. Yep! That flight ain't operating on Saturdays. I call scheduling and explain to them the situation and if they have any questions to call dispatch. They stick me on hold for 20 minutes, while I'm singing along to the song "There She Goes". Don't know why it took that long. The flight is not operating on Saturdays! Period. She comes back and tell's me I'm right the flight is not going and I am back in my reserve window. I am glad I checked, I saved myself, the CA and FA a trip to the airport, where we would have stood around like a bunch of idiots looking for an airplane and gate.:p |
"I got hosed on L2 today. 8:55 they call me to come sit ready at 21:00. So I have a 3hr ready, but will get paid 4:20, plus I have a trip tomorrow. This makes my head hurt. Sometimes seniorty based call-outs override logic"
Section "24 O 5" A reserve pilot may be reassigned from one (1) reserve period or classification to another reserve period or classification provided he is notified of the reassignment prior to the start of the reserve period or classification from which he is being reassigned. Call them and tell them to take it off:mad: |
I think you guys are reading the contract wrong. Nowhere does it say that a LC reserve assignment must start within their window. That would make no sense. That would mean a LC1 pilot could only report between 1400-1500 (9 hour call out from 0500-1500) and LC2 pilot could not be used at all. That would completely defeat the purpose of having a long call window.
Para 12-G-1-e-(1) states LC2 pilots use a 12 hour call out and the time preceding will be used as legal rest. Yes it states that a LC reserve follows the same rules as SC, but this case is under the exceptions paragraph. Also, nowhere in the contract does it say that LC reserves cannot be assigned a ready reserve. I probably didn't explain me reasoning thoroughly here, but hopefully you guys might see the other side of the coin Additionally, with the union filing an overall grievance about the readys, what would come from it? What would we get if the grievance was awarded to the union? Is that like some sort of class action lawsuit? What I think would happen is they'd agree to a MOU that LCs can do readys, and can report at any time, following their required 9/12 hour rest.. |
Originally Posted by Pantera
(Post 346056)
Section "24 O 5" A reserve pilot may be reassigned from one (1) reserve period or classification to another reserve period or classification provided he is notified of the reassignment prior to the start of the reserve period or classification from which he is being reassigned.
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Originally Posted by cessna157
(Post 346082)
I was pre-notified of the change.
Alright, let me get this straight. I'm assuming they notified you of your L2 yesterday or a few days ago. So, today you are on L2 (0700-0900 & 1700-1900). They called you this morning at 0855 to notify you of a 2100-2400 ready reserve. Now, if I read the contract correctly, your ready reserve has to fall within your reserve window, which is 1700-1900. 2100-2400 does not fall in your reserve window. If they would have changed it to A6 or A7, then it would make sense. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Unless there is some loop hole around this L2 for ready reserve this assignment is illegal. |
That's what I was trying to say in my previous post. The way I read the contract, a LC reserve assignment does not have to commence within one of the windows. That's the reason for the 9/12 rest period. If that was the case, an L2 pilot could, by definition, never get used unless pre-notified. If you were called between 0700-0900, 12 hours later would be outside of your window. So therefore the 12 hour call out would be redundant and impossible. It would have to be a 24 hour call out and/or a prenotify-only reserve pilot. and the L1 window would be legal to report for just 1 hour per day. That would make a Long Call pilot completely useless.
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My original post was not attempting to point out an illegal assignment. The assignment is legal. It is completely legal to the contract. That's what makes it a bad assignment. They wanted to have a ready reserve pilot in tonight. I was next for callout in line of contractual seniority (RR is a 1 day assignment, I was the junior reserve with 1 day of availability), except they had to give me 12 hour call out because I got stuck on L2 today. So that meant that I could not come in and sit until 2100 (after all of the flights leave.....Saturday only has 1/2 of the nightly "superpush").
What my original intent was to point out that this illogical assignment isn't a result of crew scheduling, it is a result of our wonderful contract. Someone earlier commented that LC reserves should only get assignments that are 9+ hours out and SC get anything within that time frame. I completely agree. But language in the contract and schedulers manual says do not take window into account. If it is 0600 and there is a 2 day trip that reports at 1630, and there is a junior A5 reserve and a senior L1 reserve, both with 2 days of availability, common sense would state that the L1 pilot should get used and to save the A5 for something that might come up later in the day, but the contract prohibits that from happening. |
Has anyone ever FedExed themselves in/out of CVG? If so, where do you go? Where do you check in?
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What is 'VP' on SBS?
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C'mon Driver! Pay attention. We just discussed this.
Actually, its some sort of vacation payout. It's kinda like a PL day, but you get paid for it from your vacation bank. I'm not too sure how it works actually. |
Originally Posted by cessna157
(Post 346275)
C'mon Driver! Pay attention. We just discussed this.
Actually, its some sort of vacation payout. It's kinda like a PL day, but you get paid for it from your vacation bank. I'm not too sure how it works actually. I've seen it on people's line as PL and VP. So, I guess you can take a Personal Leave day and get paid for it by using a VP? How can you get PL? Do you have to get approval from a chief pilot? |
Originally Posted by CRJDriver
(Post 346296)
Yeah, yeah...
I've seen it on people's line as PL and VP. So, I guess you can take a Personal Leave day and get paid for it by using a VP? How can you get PL? Do you have to get approval from a chief pilot? If your a 70 FO forget it... |
Originally Posted by cessna157
(Post 346213)
Has anyone ever FedExed themselves in/out of CVG? If so, where do you go? Where do you check in?
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Originally Posted by CRJDriver
(Post 346296)
Yeah, yeah...
I've seen it on people's line as PL and VP. So, I guess you can take a Personal Leave day and get paid for it by using a VP? How can you get PL? Do you have to get approval from a chief pilot? You know when the new Maestro system comes online, you won't be able to snoop around on other people's schedules! |
Originally Posted by RJtrashPilot
(Post 346478)
You know when the new Maestro system comes online, you won't be able to snoop around on other people's schedules!
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Originally Posted by CRJDriver
(Post 346479)
Ohh... too bad:rolleyes: How am I going to stalk F/As then? :p
With our F/A's? Trying using food as bait. :eek: |
I'll love when you can't see other people's lines. It depressing when I see all these people junior to me breaking 75 hours with out bidding to fly and I'm stuck at 50 hours of credit and I bid to fly.
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Originally Posted by ReadyToQuit
(Post 346498)
I'll love when you can't see other people's lines. It depressing when I see all these people junior to me breaking 75 hours with out bidding to fly and I'm stuck at 50 hours of credit and I bid to fly.
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Yeah I don't know why I keep doing it. It worked really good when we weren't so fat on FOs. Now it really does blow. I keep bidding thinking it might go back to how it was 4 months ago (I'm in denial)
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I have 16 block hours this month while bidding to fly. They burned all 6 readies on me in the first 13 days of the month. I have been used one time ever on a ready reserve.
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happy easter folks
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Thanks for giving me Easter off when I forgot to bid it Comair.... you're so good to me lately :) Love Long call...mmm
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????
test your knowledge A reserve CA (A3) releases a scheduled flying day of 6 hrs block at 2115. He is scheduled to DH home on the next day - no block scheduled at all. He is not pre-notified. What is this CA's required rest? |
8 hours which seems to be the norm
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8 hours with a delayed report 30 min prior which means 7:30 of rest if your lucky
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Originally Posted by ftrpilot
(Post 346723)
????
test your knowledge A reserve CA (A3) releases a scheduled flying day of 6 hrs block at 2115. He is scheduled to DH home on the next day - no block scheduled at all. He is not pre-notified. What is this CA's required rest? How'd I do? TC BTW: where have you been lately? |
dont forget to do the 24 look back
key word not previously notified a3 window 0600-2000 must rls by 2130 this is day one |
another one which seems to escape everyone
CA Smith is a A6 reserve and is assigned Flt 5465 CVG-MCO departing at 2209 and arriving MCO at 0025. This is his only leg for today and he is scheduled to DH home tomorrow. After legal rest what time can CA Smith report for this deadhead tomorrow? I was quizzed today on these ? |
Arriving at 0025 would be releasing at 0045. 8 hours would be 0845 report for a 0915 departure.
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remember the dbl dsl rule in the outstation
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Originally Posted by ftrpilot
(Post 346793)
another one which seems to escape everyone
CA Smith is a A6 reserve and is assigned Flt 5465 CVG-MCO departing at 2209 and arriving MCO at 0025. This is his only leg for today and he is scheduled to DH home tomorrow. After legal rest what time can CA Smith report for this deadhead tomorrow? I was quizzed today on these ? 0025 block in 0045 release Earliest report 09:45 Unless reduced rest is in order for some reason. |
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