lear 31 pilot

What freightpuppy said is true. These training programs are a joke, I was just in class with a couple Canadian pilots and they knew there ****** alot more then all us Americans. These written test in the U.S.A are ridicoulous all it takes is a good three days of memorization and you can pass the ATP written and not know anything. 200 or even 500 hour FOs are ridiculous and it will someday bite the industry. We have been lucky so far I believe because of all the high time captains that have been stuck at the regionals since 9/11 but with alot of them moving on there will be a change in the experience level of the guy in the left seat and now the guy in the right seat has never been in a cloud and has 80 hours in a sim that is being taught by an instructor who may have never flown the real thing. I am no expert and am not a high time pilot around 2500 hours but common sense to me is that these pilots are highly underqualified to be flying the public around.

flyguy

Sure, if you want to get technical, PFT -- Pay For Training, can be seen in all realms of aviation. From Southwest to corporate flight departments to guys going through a 5 day RJ Standards course at ATP to guys at Jet U. Call it what you want.

Though Pinnacle does provide the training materials, from my understanding they don't get a slice of the 27 grand. Once you're hired, you still go through ALL the training that any other new hire goes through. Also, if they did get a slice they probably wouldn't come here and play stupid games like giving tests during interviews filled with questions about Q-Routes, RNAV, etc., when staff here are specifically instructed NOT to teach about these topics. "External applicants" have never, ever received tests like that. We'll see what they have in store for this next group interviewing later this month.

Pinnacle encourages people without their minimum time requirements to go to JetU because they're dying for pilots, and they know if somebody signs up at JetU they'll be on a fast track to their airline. However, JetU "graduates" are by no means obligated to go to that airline. In fact, to be honest with you -- I bet there'll be a large amount who don't go to Pinnacle in the near future (especially considering some of the latest "issues"). Many people here have their sights set on Air Wisconsin and PSA, and both of those airlines have their sights set on us.

So I would still definitely argue that this is not PFT. It's learning the CRJ -- operated by dozens of airlines -- which simply makes a low time guy more marketable to all airlines. Not just Pinnacle.

Pilotpip

It's PFT. You're spending money to shortcut your way into a job. Sad thing is you're buying into this hype. There are plenty of people getting hired with low times right now that didn't spend a crapton of money on a program that was sold to you as the only way to get in. Look at the companies that utilize this. Pinnacle, Mesa, places that most people aren't going or are leaving in droves.

You should never pay to get a job, and this is what you're doing. Once you're there the airline is going to teach you everything you need to know. I never had touched a jet before and I'm doing just fine, so are thousands of others.

All you are doing by going to Jet U is lowering standards for you and everybody else. By paying that much just to get a "leg up" you're undermining all the work that those who have spent years working for low wages are trying to fix. You're just keeping the stream of cheap, inexperienced labor open for management.

lear 31 pilot

that sums it up. I am so sick of these rich kids paying to become an underpaid First Officer. There are a few of us out there that have had to work our a**es off to make ends meet because this is all we ever wanted to do was fly airplanes and Daddy doesn't pay for our rent and SUV payment.

TXTECHKA

If you want to be marketable to a regional airline go and get all your certificates then get about 1000 to 1500 hours as an instructor and about 500 multi and maybe even a little turbine time by hangin out at your local fbo and doing it the old fashioned way, then you can go to any regional you want and you don't have to go to a dump like pinch nickel or whatever. Also, believing that you have gained "experience" by using these kind of programs is rediculous. Real experience is gained by flying a real airplane. Paying to fly in a simulator is a redundant waste of time and money since you're going to get to do it when you get to an airline anyway. Also if you gain experience the old fashioned way you will be more than qualified to fly for any regional, not just the ones that have a crj.

flyguy

What about guys at Southwest? They're among the most respected pilots out there, and most of them (without prior 737 experience) had to make an investment in their training. Sure, it was for a much higher paying job. But for the guys that had to buy the type before being hired -- their training wouldn't do much help at a carrier without 737s. Same concept, TXTECHKA.

flyguy

Yea -- flying is exactly what I've ever wanted to do as well. So since I didn't have to take out a loan that makes you sick? That's how life works. I'm sorry you may have had to work harder to fund your training, but don't take that frustration out on those who haven't had as hard of a time.

Edit--

And come to think of it, after posting that.... it's interesting how those most opposed to programs like JetU seem to be the ones who had to "sweat blood" to get to the right seat while flight instructing, banner towing, etc. I hold a lot of respect for those of you who did that, and I would have done the same thing if I had to. Though I respect the path it took for some of you to get there, I get tired of the animosity directed at those who didn't walk in your footsteps. Get over it; times have changed.

TXTECHKA

Not exactly, southwest requires a 737 type before they start training, not for an interview even though it is helpful to have it. It is something that the company has done for a long time. Yes it is paying for some specific training but the pilots hired at southwest actually have enough experience to be there, they could go to other airlines with the experience they have without paying for anything extra. They aren't doing it as a short cut which is exactly what the pay for a regional job training is designed to provide.

Pilotpip

Man, you're really going to win people over with that attitude. I'd love to be there when a captain eats you alive.

I'm not in any way defending Southwest, but when you look at what they pay first year compared to Continental, United and others you're going to have that type rating paid for in about 5 months. Neither way is right but the low first year pay and no bennies like you have at CO is far worse in my mind.

Times haven't changed, and you still can't buy experience.

rickair7777

Not true. See FAR 61 requirements for an ATP license. An SIC doing his normal pilot flying thing does not count, but if you both agree that the SIC will be "performing the duties of the PIC" and log it as such it counts toward the 250 hours of PIC required for the ATP.

This does NOT mean the time is PIC, or is logged as PIC, or will count toward anyone's hiring mins. It is logged as SIC (performing the duties of PIC) and counts only for the ATP experience requirements. This time does NOT count for ICAO requirements.