Jet University
09-20-2007 | 06:07 AM
#81
Thread Starter
Am I Wrong??????????
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 662
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From: ThE jEtTtTtTtT
Boy, did I stir up some ****** or what? 
In Summary:
All these up and coming students need to realize that these PFT programs are whats driving the industry down to lower wages and poorer work rules. Companies are thinkin "Hmmm theyve shown how desperate they are, what else can we get them to agree to?"
And again....No....1500 hours in training AC and light twins wont everything u need to fly an RJ...but it sure as crap helps.
How many of you guys were ready to jump into a 172 single pilot in IMC right after u got your instrument rating? I sure as hell wasnt. The 1500 hr pilot is sure to have seen alot more than the 200 hr pilot. Anybody can fly an airplane...they all do the same exact thing...just on different scales. Whats counts in the 121/135 world is Judgement and Descision Making.
For those of you who didnt train up in the Northeast....I dare you 250 hour pilots to fly though NY and BOS Approach/Center and see what happens.
All in all i say Experience is a great school....even though the tuition is friggin expensive. All that extra flying time may make the difference between getting 50 people and your crew safely on the ground....or taking that last flight west.
Be safe people....be smart..and as always SCREW GO JETS!
In Summary:
All these up and coming students need to realize that these PFT programs are whats driving the industry down to lower wages and poorer work rules. Companies are thinkin "Hmmm theyve shown how desperate they are, what else can we get them to agree to?"
And again....No....1500 hours in training AC and light twins wont everything u need to fly an RJ...but it sure as crap helps.
How many of you guys were ready to jump into a 172 single pilot in IMC right after u got your instrument rating? I sure as hell wasnt. The 1500 hr pilot is sure to have seen alot more than the 200 hr pilot. Anybody can fly an airplane...they all do the same exact thing...just on different scales. Whats counts in the 121/135 world is Judgement and Descision Making.
For those of you who didnt train up in the Northeast....I dare you 250 hour pilots to fly though NY and BOS Approach/Center and see what happens.
All in all i say Experience is a great school....even though the tuition is friggin expensive. All that extra flying time may make the difference between getting 50 people and your crew safely on the ground....or taking that last flight west.
Be safe people....be smart..and as always SCREW GO JETS!
09-20-2007 | 06:33 AM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 722
Likes: 0
what im surprised no one is saying is that these days you could go to the local fbo get all your ratings through comm multi and get a job without any jet transition baloney.
why people are wasting that kind of money for training the company you will go work for provides is what people question, especially when you can get the job without wasting all that.
why people are wasting that kind of money for training the company you will go work for provides is what people question, especially when you can get the job without wasting all that.
09-20-2007 | 06:50 AM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 406
Likes: 0
From: Left and Right of Whatever
I agree. Your local FBO training can be just as tough as some of these PFT programs. It will depend on your CFI's and their involvement, or lack thereof with your training.
For instance, I am assuming that after a year or so of teaching, we forget to ask our new student what they want out of flying. We focus on "I will get you your PPL" and don't look much beyond that. In hawaii, all my CFI's were military folks and I told them my goal was to fly for the military. Guess what, all those Uh-60 and CH-47 IP/IFE's jumped all over me and trained me according to the school syllabus, but with tighter military standards. Needless to say, all my ground's, and check flights were WAY above what the examiner could even hope to bring and I was hella bored on most of my checkrides.
Now, without all that PFT, you CFI's out there could do just the same for the 0-hour lawn darts that come to you and say "I want to be an airline pilot." Take that enthusiasm and run with it. Stick with them and train then to tight tough standards from day one. Teach them to study systems and procedures like an airline pilot and I am sure that you will see an increase in the quality of folks coming through your door. I have several right now that love the fact that I am taking the time to do that for them. They do all the calc's prior to each flight, and even make call-out's in a 172. They eat it up. Perhaps it is a cheap from of ab initio training, but those students are all hours. Most of them at least 100 + that I get to log.
Bottom line. You can't blame the programs for everything. Pilots are only as good as their instructors teach them to be. One should not strive to be better than the competition, but always be better than themselves.
For instance, I am assuming that after a year or so of teaching, we forget to ask our new student what they want out of flying. We focus on "I will get you your PPL" and don't look much beyond that. In hawaii, all my CFI's were military folks and I told them my goal was to fly for the military. Guess what, all those Uh-60 and CH-47 IP/IFE's jumped all over me and trained me according to the school syllabus, but with tighter military standards. Needless to say, all my ground's, and check flights were WAY above what the examiner could even hope to bring and I was hella bored on most of my checkrides.
Now, without all that PFT, you CFI's out there could do just the same for the 0-hour lawn darts that come to you and say "I want to be an airline pilot." Take that enthusiasm and run with it. Stick with them and train then to tight tough standards from day one. Teach them to study systems and procedures like an airline pilot and I am sure that you will see an increase in the quality of folks coming through your door. I have several right now that love the fact that I am taking the time to do that for them. They do all the calc's prior to each flight, and even make call-out's in a 172. They eat it up. Perhaps it is a cheap from of ab initio training, but those students are all hours. Most of them at least 100 + that I get to log.
Bottom line. You can't blame the programs for everything. Pilots are only as good as their instructors teach them to be. One should not strive to be better than the competition, but always be better than themselves.
09-20-2007 | 09:42 AM
#84
CA
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,006
Likes: 0
From: I am the Captain now...
First of all, what everyone is saying that you don't seem to understand is that it is not always about the CRJ systems. It's about the three logbooks filled with experiences ranging from dealing with unexpected weather to serious MX and ATC issues. Speaking of weather, you may have noticed that humans make mistakes. Everyone makes them, and learns from them. If I'm not mistaken, that's a common definition of experience. Have I done stupid things in airplanes? Damn right I have. I've found myself alone in a single piston over a lake getting low fuel warnings. I've lost 20 knots in a single piston when I encountered ice that wasn't forecasted. Could both of them been avoided? Probably. Did I learn valuable lessons from both situations that I apply every time I ask for the thrust to be set? YES. That's what people are talking about here...the experiences you learn from, that build your pilot instinct, so to speak. Not whether or not you could build me a perfect model of the electrical system. And as for your comment basically saying screw that to lowly flight instructing, let me tell you something. Had it not been for all kinds of generous people who helped me out along the way, who gave me a chance to fly their bonanza on the weekends, to take a minute out of their day to teach me something about flying, I wouldn't have gotten anywhere. Sometimes it's not about what you can bring to the cockpit, quite frankly I don't give a damn. It's about what you can give back to aviation. You talk about the pride aviation has lost...well that's my pride. I know where I came from, I know what got me here, and I won't forget about helping others out. That's why I keep all my certificates current. CFI, CFII, MEI, CFIG. Not trying to bash or anything here, just trying to better explain what I think some people are feeling and why you're feeling some distaste. Good luck to you in all that you do, just have some respect for the work other people put into this business to get to where they are. Thanks.
09-20-2007 | 01:23 PM
#85
Thread Starter
Am I Wrong??????????
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 662
Likes: 0
From: ThE jEtTtTtTtT
Yeah definatley well spoken.
09-20-2007 | 02:15 PM
#87
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,752
Likes: 18
I am serious. Tell me how a guy who has spent 1500 hours in the right seat of a 172 and a Seminole knows more about a CRJ than someone who has been immersed in it for 4 months. I will grant him radio experience, but he better not have more icing experience because those planes aren't certified for it. If he does have icing experience, I would question his decision-making skills for flying into it.
.
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So what happens when you get dispatch with no FMS in your CRJ? cry to your CA because you don't know how to make a crossing restriction, or have to figure out a hold with raw data, because Jet U didn't teach you that right? I'm willing to bet that most of my CFI friends can figure it out in a heart beat since they been flying raw data all their life. That's one of the many things you will see on the line that you will wish you had that CFI experience.
09-20-2007 | 03:49 PM
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,458
Likes: 0
From: Right Seat
So what happens when you get dispatch with no FMS in your CRJ? cry to your CA because you don't know how to make a crossing restriction, or have to figure out a hold with raw data, because Jet U didn't teach you that right? I'm willing to bet that most of my CFI friends can figure it out in a heart beat since they been flying raw data all their life. That's one of the many things you will see on the line that you will wish you had that CFI experience.
09-20-2007 | 04:04 PM
#89
CA
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,006
Likes: 0
From: I am the Captain now...
I got a chance to fly the Dylin 2 arrival into EWR on green needles and no FD, fresh off IOE- boy, what a cluster that was!
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