Do younger pilots have an intrinsic sense of entitlement?
10-05-2007 | 05:21 PM
#41
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Hmm. The sense of entitlement thing can go both ways, I guess.
On one hand, if you have a 250 hr wonder fresh out of the puppy mill who thinks they're entitled to a job at the majors within 5 years and is willing to do anything to make that happen, including flying 70 seat jets for an alter-ego carrier somewhere, that's definitely not a good thing for the profession.
On the other hand, if someone fresh out of college/flight school is thinking "Geez, I paid 100k for rather specialized technical training and will now be operating a $40m piece of equipment with significant revenue generation capability while retaining a large amount of personal liability, I deserve more than they're paying!" - well, that sort of a "sense of entitlement" we need more of, it'd be good for all pilots.
On one hand, if you have a 250 hr wonder fresh out of the puppy mill who thinks they're entitled to a job at the majors within 5 years and is willing to do anything to make that happen, including flying 70 seat jets for an alter-ego carrier somewhere, that's definitely not a good thing for the profession.
On the other hand, if someone fresh out of college/flight school is thinking "Geez, I paid 100k for rather specialized technical training and will now be operating a $40m piece of equipment with significant revenue generation capability while retaining a large amount of personal liability, I deserve more than they're paying!" - well, that sort of a "sense of entitlement" we need more of, it'd be good for all pilots.
The problem is that you have way more newbies with the attitude in your second paragraph than you do with those in your third.
10-05-2007 | 06:34 PM
#42
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From: 744 CA
Part of the problem is the thinking that the so called regional/national jet carriers are entry level jobs only. Maybe 20 years ago.... and even then there were guys who stayed there for a career... but the fact is the top end pay scale at some of these companies is fairly lucrative...NOT RICH mind you but lucrative. During the last couple of decades this business morphed itself into what it is today....and quite frankly these carriers will probably only grow in size. Is there work to do on compensation and contract specifics ...absolutly .... will these carriers continue to push scope on the upper end.. probably.... will scope from mainline relax.... it will at some places.. it wont perhaps at others....only time will tell.
What we can do is support our unions, do the job we were hired to do, push for better and better work rules and for many to move on to their dream job... but DONT belittle those who very well might make a career out of working for AE, or SKYW or RAH. There is room in this business for those at mainline carriers and those who wish to stay at smaller ones.
What we can do is support our unions, do the job we were hired to do, push for better and better work rules and for many to move on to their dream job... but DONT belittle those who very well might make a career out of working for AE, or SKYW or RAH. There is room in this business for those at mainline carriers and those who wish to stay at smaller ones.
10-05-2007 | 08:25 PM
#43
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From: CRJ-900 FO, Supra left seat
Wow wow, going to riddle makes you a douche??? Well I'm not in that boat but I definitely purchased my type rating and I am not proud of it. Has anyone here even considered corporate flying??? I mean... I'm not going to brag but there really are some great companies to work for that actually pay you really well... treat you like crap, but pay very very well. I won't go to a Regional even if they upgraded me to a captain 2nd year pay... and that is "way back when" I was an FO. I worked my butt off to afford that $13k type but in return (and the fact I had a surplus of hours) I would like to get paid fairly. And I have been. There are other routes if you don't like the way regional airline pay is headed and where it has been for years. Enough said.
10-05-2007 | 08:30 PM
#44
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From: CRJ-900 FO, Supra left seat
Oh yeah and the thing about housing. It's freakin crazy I can't even begin to own a home in the palm beach area. It's just completely out of the question. The cost of living has gone up... I wonder if they (mgmt) will at least consider that for the newbs? I mean living off food stamps is not the way of a pilot with a $100k training loan, I don't care who you are, that should be recognised. You can't make the minimum payments and buy food, gas (for your beater), rent for your house, rent for your crashpad, on and on and on...
10-06-2007 | 05:38 AM
#45
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From: A-320
Oh yeah and the thing about housing. It's freakin crazy I can't even begin to own a home in the palm beach area. It's just completely out of the question. The cost of living has gone up... I wonder if they (mgmt) will at least consider that for the newbs? I mean living off food stamps is not the way of a pilot with a $100k training loan, I don't care who you are, that should be recognised. You can't make the minimum payments and buy food, gas (for your beater), rent for your house, rent for your crashpad, on and on and on...
10-06-2007 | 06:46 AM
#46
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From: I was...inverted.
On one hand, if you have a 250 hr wonder fresh out of the puppy mill who thinks they're entitled to a job at the majors within 5 years and is willing to do anything to make that happen, including flying 70 seat jets for an alter-ego carrier somewhere, that's definitely not a good thing for the profession.
After that they should have to go and beat around in a 402/Navajo single pilot, IFR, at night, in the rocks, shooting non-precision appproaches to minimums dodging cumulo-granite clouds while picking up a load of ice. Drop off the boxes and then beat the ice off the a/c with the butt of their flashlight (
not recommended or safe) just to be able to take off again to do it five more times that day before they get to go home. This brings about more experience, better descision making, better judgement and hope fully the right "sense of entitlement".
On the other hand, if someone fresh out of college/flight school is thinking "Geez, I paid 100k for rather specialized technical training and will now be operating a $40m piece of equipment with significant revenue generation capability while retaining a large amount of personal liability, I deserve more than they're paying!" - well, that sort of a "sense of entitlement" we need more of, it'd be good for all pilots.
10-06-2007 | 07:19 AM
#47
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From: 1st year pay for the 3rd time
Funny Thing about lower times
A lot of the freight companies can't hire you unless you have at least 1200 hours due to part 135 pic requirements. So what used to be a way of gaining experience to get to the regionals is now obsolete because of the lower times required. So why would anyone fly freight at night single pilot?
Boiler also has it right....Year of birth has nothing to do with attitude. I guess it comes down to character.
Boiler also has it right....Year of birth has nothing to do with attitude. I guess it comes down to character.
10-06-2007 | 07:21 AM
#48
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Unfortunately, that's why you will never have a meaningful improvement in regional work conditions and pay. There is no incentive for management to give you an increase.
10-06-2007 | 08:55 AM
#50
Che Guevara
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