Washing out.
11-07-2007 | 06:53 AM
#142
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 686
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From: E170 FO
Yeah, its not that automated on the 170 Herc. The only thing we don't do by hand are the times. Everything else is paper. Unless of course they are testing some new super secret paperless system at S5 again. I'm sure it'll be right along just like the EFBs.
11-07-2007 | 06:45 PM
#144
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,047
Likes: 20
From: 7ER B...whatever that means.
11-11-2007 | 12:06 PM
#145
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
11-11-2007 | 06:42 PM
#147
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
From: CRJ-900 FO, Supra left seat
One technique that works in any aircraft is a CRM technique for any non precision approach.
The challenge is one of scan. Where to look, etc. I find teaching that most pilots naturally follow all company required calls. It gets pretty quite though below MDA. Try this, have the PM give you a "speed +/-, sinking xxx" Example:
"400ft, +5, sink 850" "300 ft, Minus 8, sink 1000" Do you think you would know what you are doing? What you need to correct? Nice to have the extra data to go along with whatever company/aircraft procedure /technique you are supplied.
How about this, "400 ft, minus 5, sink 300" Probably holding the nose up and not on a proper glidepath. Or, "400 ft, onspeed, sink 750" might be the correct glidepath for your speed, etc. Anyway, this is a suggestion to more fully utilize the PM while you struggle on a non precision approach at MDA and below. It effectively leverages the other pilots scan and gives you useful info when you have a split scan between flight instruments and the runway environment and allows you to make effective corrections..
The challenge is one of scan. Where to look, etc. I find teaching that most pilots naturally follow all company required calls. It gets pretty quite though below MDA. Try this, have the PM give you a "speed +/-, sinking xxx" Example:
"400ft, +5, sink 850" "300 ft, Minus 8, sink 1000" Do you think you would know what you are doing? What you need to correct? Nice to have the extra data to go along with whatever company/aircraft procedure /technique you are supplied.
How about this, "400 ft, minus 5, sink 300" Probably holding the nose up and not on a proper glidepath. Or, "400 ft, onspeed, sink 750" might be the correct glidepath for your speed, etc. Anyway, this is a suggestion to more fully utilize the PM while you struggle on a non precision approach at MDA and below. It effectively leverages the other pilots scan and gives you useful info when you have a split scan between flight instruments and the runway environment and allows you to make effective corrections..
11-11-2007 | 07:01 PM
#148
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
From: CRJ-900 FO, Supra left seat
Underlying problems
There comes a point when the PM might be making up for the PF's weak skill. Our training department does a good job with what they have to work with. If a crew ends up in a situation where there is an emergency and one pilot is incapacitated you still need to be able to handle the aircraft alone. I have flown with a couple of new pilots recently that I seriously doubt would get the aircraft on the ground safely by themselves even if everything else was working normally. The skill level and experience of some entry level pilots is not what it was during the "abundant pilot" times. I'm sure this will come to pass. For now regional training departments have their hands full. Multiple ATR's, 50-80 hours of IOE. A month of IOE? Come on. I flew with one like that... still couldn't land the plane without being coached, couldn't do a visual... and this is one that made it through. Imagine the ones they let go. It gets old. Sorry I started to vent.
I have seen posts on THIS thread about how to setup an approach in the RJ. Not sure if it's the CRJ or ERJ, who cares? Really? If you are setting up for a visual approach you need to be looking outside and scanning back inside, not constantly coming back and forth to your attitude indicator to make sure you are "minus 2 degrees". and then come back down inside and check that you have properly pitched "positive 3 degrees". All while setting flaps, gear, thrust, etc.
I dont fly a piece of paper with a power setting chart or a pitch chart for being over the fence or while at 500'AGL and 1.1 dots low and 10 knots fast, I fly an airplane.
Oh and please dont take this as me being harsh, just have been frustrated with this issue for a while and it just keeps getting worse as I look around and wonder what's happening to the pilots that use common sense mated with even a little skill.
Last edited by TheProfessionalPilot; 11-11-2007 at 07:06 PM. Reason: typo and additional comment
11-11-2007 | 07:21 PM
#149
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,047
Likes: 20
From: 7ER B...whatever that means.
I think and have observed that part of the underlying problem with all of these issues is that the primary training these people are getting is not teaching them to "think out of the box". Giving someone a power setting chart does NOT help them fly the airplane!!!!!! What are you going to do? Memorize power settings for descents too??! That's rediculous, and unfortunately I have seen it time and time again. Unfortunately for those who never learned how to think for themselves they never got upgraded.
I have seen posts on THIS thread about how to setup an approach in the RJ. Not sure if it's the CRJ or ERJ, who cares? Really? If you are setting up for a visual approach you need to be looking outside and scanning back inside, not constantly coming back and forth to your attitude indicator to make sure you are "minus 2 degrees". and then come back down inside and check that you have properly pitched "positive 3 degrees". All while setting flaps, gear, thrust, etc.
I dont fly a piece of paper with a power setting chart or a pitch chart for being over the fence or while at 500'AGL and 1.1 dots low and 10 knots fast, I fly an airplane.
Oh and please dont take this as me being harsh, just have been frustrated with this issue for a while and it just keeps getting worse as I look around and wonder what's happening to the pilots that use common sense mated with even a little skill.
I have seen posts on THIS thread about how to setup an approach in the RJ. Not sure if it's the CRJ or ERJ, who cares? Really? If you are setting up for a visual approach you need to be looking outside and scanning back inside, not constantly coming back and forth to your attitude indicator to make sure you are "minus 2 degrees". and then come back down inside and check that you have properly pitched "positive 3 degrees". All while setting flaps, gear, thrust, etc.
I dont fly a piece of paper with a power setting chart or a pitch chart for being over the fence or while at 500'AGL and 1.1 dots low and 10 knots fast, I fly an airplane.
Oh and please dont take this as me being harsh, just have been frustrated with this issue for a while and it just keeps getting worse as I look around and wonder what's happening to the pilots that use common sense mated with even a little skill.
