JetJock16

I agree but unfortunately getting an ASA pilot to see otherwise will be IMPOSSIBLE. Personally I feel the only fair merger is a %age based merger with 4 year fences. That way everyone maintains they’re respective seniority without an ASA or SKW pilot immediately affecting the other. Most (no offense Stick) will jump at the chance to screw a SKW pilot out of ANYTHING. It's SAD but when it comes to a merger they have the upper hand in almost every category. I fear the best we can do is fight, fight, fight and get some fences (hopefully 3-4 yrs) so that we can get the hell out of here before they can true affect us.

flyingkangaroo

your idea seems a little flawed, ASA is hiring 40-50 a month right now, skywest 70, it seems proportional to what skywest is hiring given the size of the pilot groups. How can you say someone working for the same corporation shouldn't be at the same level as there peers because one company was hiring a few more people, it's all technically the same company. Upgrade on the ATR will fall below 2 years soon at ASA and I expect the jet to be at about 2 years soon enough, why in the hell do you think we will all want to jump ship out of our appartments and homes for a couple months to be based in MKE? Trying to compare schedules is crazy too, skywest has PBS ASA doesn't. I truly doubt merging the list would really change much of anything except maybe give the combined unionized group a better contract with collective bargaining. I say unionized because I don't see a way that they will merge the groups if one is unionized and the other isn't.

palgia841

more like 20/mo at SKW....

SKW doesn't hire 200hr pilots with zero multi PIC like ASA (at least not yet), so they are having a hard time filling classes.

JetJock16

68% of our pilot group was hired in the last 4 years? That's right, 68% of SKW 2800 pilots were hired in the last 4 yrs, that's more than 1800 pilots. ASA doesn’t even have that many pilots! So do you still think it would be equal? In order to be equal 1200+ of your pilots had to have been hired in the last 4 yrs and that's impossible! Look it up and you'll see an overwhelming majority of SKW pilots stand to loose an incredible amount of seniority.

What you’re saying is that ASA has no pilots commuting from MKE or ORD. You mean to tell us that there are no pilots at ASA that would benefit from SKW domiciles. Please? Don’t be naïve!

I do agree, as long as SKW in non-union and ASA is union, I think there will be no merger. But that’s just my opinion. I’m not Mgmnt!

Koolaidman

20-30 new hires per three-week class is much more accurate. There were about 70 between the two classes when I went through transition. I start August 27th. Out of the 70, maybe 30 were new hires? So, if we have two classes a month, obviously 70 is more appropriate.

ToiletDuck

I don't really know of any mergers that were "fair". The only way to truely know if something went fair is if both sides are equally ****ed off.

TonyWilliams

The ALPA guys have told me that a 30% pay CUT they took was good because it would have been 45%. I guess things are all relative. By the way, I wasn't here for ANY of the previous pay issues, so I'm merely a bystander to history. Perhaps you are, too?



That's a bold statement. If you don't like ALPA, you're ignorant about unions? Might I suggest you need to rephrase that?



Which SAPA officers are "bombarding" you? Name one. What was sent?

You need to actually OBSERVE, and not take the whole ALPA sandwhich in one bite.




And ALPA hasn't suggested that they're going to "fix" everything? Come on....

reelbigchair

It's really not that flawed. My point about schedules has nothing to do with PBS. It has to do with relative QOL when compared to years with the company. A SkyWest pilot has the option of being in ORD or MKE and hold a schedule that is 50% up the seniority list after 3-4 years with the company as a captain. On the F/O side it's far more drastic, I have been at SkyWest since August of 06. I bid 40 something out of over 170. But again I'm not comparing schedules per say, I'm comparing where a pilot bids now, and where they would/could bid after a merger.
As far as upgrade, your making my point for me. You said ATR upgrade should fall below 2 years, so I'm guessing its about 2 and half right now? Our jet upgrade is shorter than that. There's no comparison here.
Lastly there are many many reasons a pilot might change domiciles. I don't think all ASA pilots live in ATL. Just as an example, I think there are many ASA pilots that would jump at the opportunity to get back to SLC. And I'm sure there's ASA pilots who live in any one of our numerous bases across the country. Also I suspect there are many pilots there that would jump at the opportunity to upgrade sooner in one of our junior bases.

flybywire44

So who can pea farther?

YAKflyer

You know Tony I thought the tone of my post was pretty low key and balanced. It was not my intent to raise anybody's blood pressure, but I feel like you are bating me. I acknowledged information provided by both sides has been intense. I outlined why I thought ALPA would be a good choice trying to not get personal. You have taken snippets of my post, out of context, and responded to them putting your own spin on, rather than responding to the message itself. I will respond to each of your comments as a whole, so as to not miss represent what you said.

I guess you are saying that it would have been better for ALPA to hold the line and allow companies to fail, rather than renegotiate and participate in saving those companies in distress. Correct me if I'm wrong and tell me what solution you would have advocated. I suspect it is easier to represent workers when you don't have to worry about your employer making a profit or going out of business.

I don't know what you mean by a bystander. I celebrated 40 years of being a certificated airman this summer. I've been employed as an airline pilot since 1973 and still am. I don't know what level of knowledge of SKW issues I need to have to not be a bystander, but my level of understanding of SKW issues goes back before 1999 when more than 50% of SKW pilots voted to certify ALPA. It was razor close. So why didn't ALPA win the election? Six ballots were postmarked after the deadline. BTW I entertained voting for you, but decided not to lend SAPA any more credibility by participating in the election. The reason you or any of the others did not get my vote wasn't apathy.


I doubt you enjoy having words put in your mouth any more than me. What I said was:

"Those who have a poor opinion of ALPA don't understand the process or business of representation."

I stand by those words. I doubt the all the controllers you represented understood what it was like for you and your associates to do your business. I'd be surprised if more than 20% of the pilots at any airline represented by ALPA understand exactly what goes into getting the business done. I say 20% because (and I'm guessing here) that's the most that will ever get into volunteering during their careers to serve either as elected officers or committee members. Bottom line ALPA at any carrier is staffed by pilots from that airline doing the best they can for the pilots of that airline. Sometimes the pills their pilots have to swallow are bitter, but the work is about making the lives of the pilots better than they would have been otherwise. That does not mean individuals can't have an opinion, but there is a difference between an opinion and an informed opinion.


Name one......well other than the letter from the SAPA president......you. Both here and on the SAPA forum. BTW when I say "bombarding" I mean the collective effort of those attempting to keep ALPA off the property. Oh yeah......in the spirit of fairness it goes both ways. BTW I've been taking ALPA sandwich bites for over thirty years and it goes down pretty easy if you know how it is made.


I haven't seen anywhere where ALPA or I have said they will "fix" everything. What ALPA has said is they will provide a legally enforceable contract and they will provide the services they provide to all members. I expect DD would have preferred to have ALPA take the risk of his defense rather than having to do that himself.

I've seen how effective SAPA is and can't believe anything other than nothing could be worse......but then your results could vary.