BigPropz

its the JR jet june of 2000

Deez340

wow! it was about 15 years when i left. why is it the junior jet now? doesn't it pay more?

BigPropz

yah it pays alot more and now that we are getting the other 25 its gonna drop to about maybe early 04 for jr CA

BigPropz

with no new hires from 9-11 to about late 03 early 04

Deez340

right so why is it junior? I figured ERJ New York for most jr. anyway back to the topic; low timers and slam dunk turbojet visuals are always a hoot. After flying with one particular aeronautical prodigy i called the standards dept and said if they sent me anymore people off ioe that i had to babysit i was going to bill them for check airmen pay. he hired me into standards instead.

BigPropz

yah them Riddle rats... where u working DEEZ

Deez340

Hey i was a riddle rat. of course i had 1800tt and 800 multi when i went to EGL and was by far the lowest time in the class. but i know of the 250hr riddle wonders of which you speak. As my avatar would indicate I'm a slave to the maddog at DAL but I'm no longer on the shuttle.

SaltyDog

EglCL65,
Curiosity begs me to ask, were these F/O's even trained to fly your aircraft on a visual approach? If so, what did it specifically include? What scenarios? How much time in the program? What do your briefs entail? How about CRM? (would love to sit on your JS to listen to your technique).
Sounds crazy, but as an instr. at my place, we don't train visual approaches. Not enough time. We tell them the OE instructor will do that. We teach stuff we don't want them to do on the line, all the circus stuff, loss of engines, system malfunctions, etc. A visual approach is laden with technique. If it wasn't, why look out the window. I could simply fly the heavily practiced ILS procedures. It may be in the AOM, but it is up to you to teach it, even if they are looking out, they need your experience to put the dots together. Even though I landed on boats several hundreds of times, I always had at least three sets of experienced eyes looking at me. I never stopped learning from them. I understand the frustration. I have been there working with foreign military students who couldn't speak good english in a multi aircraft tactical environment, new hires who only flew glass RJ's who couldn't land a DC-8 in crosswinds <g> etc.
You are a mentor, seasoned but clearly frustrated. If it gets to aggravating, quit. It is the safer thing for all on the line. I know some of our OE/IP have stopped teaching for these exact reasons. Easy to bash these young of experience crews, but that is the market. We need to ramp them up. Denigrating doesn't advance our profession nor the safety in our cockpits.
You clearly have the background to teach, do you have the patience to teach?

SharkyBN584

How dare someone on IOE need to learn something. No wonder regionals are dropping their mins, all you have to do on a visual is look outside!

ghilis101

hahaha. visual approaches are never easy, but try teaching your students to use the fms as much as looking outside. if you build a visual approach to the runway with a 3 to 5 mile final your students will have a great reference of a line to roll out on on their map mode. from there then they can pick their head up and see the runway. and then they can play out that whole 3 miles for every 1000 feet glideslope, but even the guesswork is taken out of that since most fms's will give you vnav guidance if you program it in.

relax, enjoy yourself and try a different form of instruction so they can figure it out well before they make a serious mistake. taking the controls from someone shouldnt really ever have to occur if you talk them through it early