Hey,

Just curious if anybody has been having issues with the Eldee 2 arrival for DCA now that it has been modified. We recieved an e-mail from the union stating that people are having issues with meeting the crossing restriction at Eldee 8,000 and 210kts. The issue has been the short distances between fixes. I was just flying captain who had problems with meeting the restiction and speed because they were icing conditions. For those not familiar the EMB, in icing conditions shows an increase of roughly 30% more power making it very difficult to fly this arrival. The capt said he had to drop the gear and spd breaks out to meet the restrictions. The union said they are having pilot alt deviations recently esspecially with strong westerly winds. I personally thought it was me, but after talking to the capt and receiving an e-mail for the union I was interested if any other carriers out there having similar issues. Here is the arrival for reference. Usually we come from BNA across BKW. So is anybody else having problems too?

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0801/00443ELDEE.PDF

 

I have seen a Fed bust a CA for failure to plan a descent in icing conditions so that all restrictions can be met, even with an increased power setting. This basically means getting down early. In the CRJ there is yellow "min power" marker when the wings are on, and this Fed considered it a violation to reduce power below that setting while in actual icing conditions.

If the arrival is constructed so that it's just impossible to do the restrictions in your aircraft in the given conditions, then state "unable". Maybe they need to redesign their approach to accomodate the airliners that use it. Probably a good idea if you give ATC a heads up if you expect to be unable.

 

Flew it the other day no problems, it just requires planning and CRM. You can't start your briefing once you're on the descend.

 

Have yet to fly the ELDEE since they modified it, however it sounds similar to the RAVEN (sp?) into BWI--where you've got crossing restrictions in close proximity to each other. As was previously mentioned, plan ahead for it and just fly the airplane. That's what we're all paid (somewhat) to do right?

 

Hopefully Saab2000 will chime in on this. He had some good insight on it a few weeks ago when we flew together. I don't recall it being a problem though. Even it is a little tight I doubt a little planning ahead couldn't solve it... even in icing conditions.

 

Groovinaviator is correct. We flew it and it will be a problem for some folks. Unfortunately it's not an "At or Above", it's "At".

Plan ahead, read the chart in advance.

Yeah, the icing issue is a tough one. May have to slow to 250 way out and tell ATC of that fact. That way you can fly with power set.

I said when it came out that that arrival is going to cause trouble and apparently it is.

Plan ahead, communicate with your fellow pilot, brief it and talk to ATC ahead of a problem, not when it's happening.

Also, the yellow arc on the CRJ for icing and the Fed is ridiculous because you also get an indication of whether or not the wing icing is still on via other information. We are told that the yellow arc is advisory in nature and that you still have ice protection below it. That said, it is probably wise to stay in the green arc.

Still, that fed must be a complete prick.

But this is a good thread. Beware the Eldee 2 arrival.

 

The arrival is difficult. It is nearly impossible to do smoothly. If you are worried about being smooth(I argue that you should most of the time) you will probably miss at least one of the altitudes.

 

It is definately a pain in the rear. We flew it yesterday. I do not believe there is a speed restriction at Eldee though. It's just Eldee at 8000.

 

hey, thanks for the feedback. Hopefully people can keep out of trouble. Eldee is 210kts if landing rwy 19. For some reason it doesn't show it on the gov' chart but its in the Jepps.

 

I had the boards out through 15 to make that...it is tight, but manageable even with 80kt tailwinds.