Slice

N2 was an 'undercutter' too...apparently it's ok for him to judge since now he's been born again.

JetJock16

Well, apparently you are more than just "Bored with life," I think you have hostility issues. Yes, what happened to Aloha is tragic and Mesa's Mgmnt played a huge part in their demise but to call for Mesa's employee’s blood is uncalled for. Not one pilot or dispatcher could stop Orenstein from doing what he did and is going to do. Yes they could have refused but why would they. Did they have firsthand knowledge of Orenstein’s dirty tactics and did those pilots go out there with the intentions of destroying other pilots/families lives? No, they went just as XJT pilots moved over to their branded flying (Yes don’t be an idiot; I know the differences between the two Mgmnt teams). Mesa’s pilots mean no ill will, only their leader did and not one of them knew of this intent except him and his counter parts.

People look for the best in everything; from companies to relationships, we all hope that time will change them for the better. Unfortunately we more often than not lose when we play with fire.

I think you need to relax and understand that it's not the employees, its Orenstein. If you want blood then call for his but not Mesa's employees.

BoredwLife

I drank too much coffee this morning and may have been a little hostile. Or have anger managment issues. Who knows... HAHAHA

But IMHO Mesa's buisness ethics are VERY VERY VERY WELL known. If you choose to go to a company knowing this you should be prepared for the consequences. If you don't know about it, then it is still your fault for not doing your research prior to going to a company.

kansas

Part 135 cargo, I guess...other than that, I don't know. This is exactly the point I was trying to make. I find it a bit messed up to take the stance that N2 does about Mesa "undercutting the industry" if one is working for a regional flying mainline routes anyway (which is nearly all of them).

I don't have any disrespect for MAG pilots at all...I just don't want to work there.

paxhauler85

Let's get the mods to create a "Mesa is Terrible" section of the forums (just like major/regional/cargo), that way, N2, NWA757, and Boredwlife can live there and talk about Mesa until they're blue in the face.

BoredwLife

I know im explaining the same thing on 2 diffrent threads. I Love everyone!!! Just a friendly debate.

JetJock16

Yes, I agree that Orenstein has no ethics.

BTW, even if you don't go to a company like Mesa you should prepare for a fall from grace. It happens every year to the good and the bad.

Yes all pilots and all professionals should research the past, present and future (goals) of every company they get in bed with. If your company goes down and you knew that they were headed down the crapper or in the crapper then yes, you don't deserve it but you chose to take the risk so in a way your situation is your fault.

None the less I wish it on no one.

DsrtAV8R

Wrong...the pilot group themselves.

Granted, yes we have an atrocious group of upper-level management, but the pilot group has such a tremendous lack of respect for itself...making it nearly impossible for a rock-solid, stand-up-for-itself sort of a union to develop. It is this deep sense of low-morale that is the true root of our lack of ability to fight.

We do not show up to work and think everything is peachy keen with the way we are treated and how the operation runs. True, there are rookie FO's out there that are uneducated about the fundamentals/economics of the industry...they are at EVERY carrier; not just Mesa. Yes, we have a tendancy to pick up some pilots that are just UNABLE to get jobs at the other carriers for various reasons, the majority of new FO's are just as green and uneducated about the industry as the new hires at XJT, SkyWest, Republic...and the list goes on. We at Mesa just have and unusually difficult job of showing new-hires that these conditions are not what it's all about. We have to educate them about the cultures at other carriers and what we DON'T have at Mesa. This is a daunting task that is easier said then done.

The most common conversation in any Mesa flight deck is about the problems which we face and what needs to be done to fix them; however, respect for one's self, career, and work enviroment is what really needs to be preached. These qualities are prominent amongst the pilots leading solid MEC's. You may ask: "Well, why haven't these people stepped forward at Mesa to lead the union?" Good leaders have become statistics of vicious attrtion at our company; therefore, the union leadership turns over on a fairly regular basis and we are back at square-one. The attitude has to change: Don't try and burn it down, fight to make it better place to work and have a career. That's a key dfiference between Mesa and other regional airlines: You can make a life-long career at other regional airlines if you choose to do so. I'm not saying we don't any pilots at Mesa who have chosen to do so, but these are the guy/gals that are key to changing the company...people who are here for the rest of their aviation careers who have the respect for themselves, career, and family and want to make Mesa a better place to work (for long term)

Until we get union leadership that is constructive and understands the importance of EDUCATION...nothing will change. If we build on those two very important qualities...unity will increase and the level of agressiveness will pick up dramatically. With all this comes standing up to management and BALLS.

Wishing and publicly rooting for a company to put its pilots on the streets and going out of business is absolutely rediculous. We should all have each other's backs in our fights versus management and should be preaching unity amongst each other and figuring out solutions to the current issues we ALL face.

The mentality on this forum is sometimes very disturbing ..."my regional is better than yours" and "this company deserves to go out of business" and "that pilot group sucks." If this type of attitude continues, the future of the regional segment of the airline industry may not be so bright.

BoredwLife

Nicely said.

JetJock16

DsrtAV8R, I respect all pilots (ok maybe no GoJetr's) and I've defended Mesa pilots countless times. No I don't defend their decisions or their company but I will never deny the jump to any Mesa pilot and I will always allow them into the actual, I'll also buy the first round on an overnight.