Mesa-Why the hate?
#21
#22
YES IT IS A MANAGMENT ISSUE!!! You think all of a sudden the managment wil go "OHHHH Sorry we didnt realize that we were doing bad things..."
No Im sorry but people CHOOSE to work for this airline and I have no sympathy if they lose thier jobs and struggle. Companies like MESA deserve it, not companies like ALOHA. People that get a job working for an airline like this enable it to continue to do what it does.
No airline is perfect but I cannot think of another one with such a total disregard for ethics.
No Im sorry but people CHOOSE to work for this airline and I have no sympathy if they lose thier jobs and struggle. Companies like MESA deserve it, not companies like ALOHA. People that get a job working for an airline like this enable it to continue to do what it does.
No airline is perfect but I cannot think of another one with such a total disregard for ethics.
People look for the best in everything; from companies to relationships, we all hope that time will change them for the better. Unfortunately we more often than not lose when we play with fire.
I think you need to relax and understand that it's not the employees, its Orenstein. If you want blood then call for his but not Mesa's employees.
#23
I drank too much coffee this morning and may have been a little hostile. Or have anger managment issues. Who knows... HAHAHA
But IMHO Mesa's buisness ethics are VERY VERY VERY WELL known. If you choose to go to a company knowing this you should be prepared for the consequences. If you don't know about it, then it is still your fault for not doing your research prior to going to a company.
But IMHO Mesa's buisness ethics are VERY VERY VERY WELL known. If you choose to go to a company knowing this you should be prepared for the consequences. If you don't know about it, then it is still your fault for not doing your research prior to going to a company.
#24
I don't have any disrespect for MAG pilots at all...I just don't want to work there.
#25
Part 135 cargo, I guess...other than that, I don't know. This is exactly the point I was trying to make. I find it a bit messed up to take the stance that N2 does about Mesa "undercutting the industry" if one is working for a regional flying mainline routes anyway (which is nearly all of them).
I don't have any disrespect for MAG pilots at all...I just don't want to work there.
I don't have any disrespect for MAG pilots at all...I just don't want to work there.
#27
BTW, even if you don't go to a company like Mesa you should prepare for a fall from grace. It happens every year to the good and the bad.
None the less I wish it on no one.
#28
Wrong...the pilot group themselves.
Granted, yes we have an atrocious group of upper-level management, but the pilot group has such a tremendous lack of respect for itself...making it nearly impossible for a rock-solid, stand-up-for-itself sort of a union to develop. It is this deep sense of low-morale that is the true root of our lack of ability to fight.
We do not show up to work and think everything is peachy keen with the way we are treated and how the operation runs. True, there are rookie FO's out there that are uneducated about the fundamentals/economics of the industry...they are at EVERY carrier; not just Mesa. Yes, we have a tendancy to pick up some pilots that are just UNABLE to get jobs at the other carriers for various reasons, the majority of new FO's are just as green and uneducated about the industry as the new hires at XJT, SkyWest, Republic...and the list goes on. We at Mesa just have and unusually difficult job of showing new-hires that these conditions are not what it's all about. We have to educate them about the cultures at other carriers and what we DON'T have at Mesa. This is a daunting task that is easier said then done.
The most common conversation in any Mesa flight deck is about the problems which we face and what needs to be done to fix them; however, respect for one's self, career, and work enviroment is what really needs to be preached. These qualities are prominent amongst the pilots leading solid MEC's. You may ask: "Well, why haven't these people stepped forward at Mesa to lead the union?" Good leaders have become statistics of vicious attrtion at our company; therefore, the union leadership turns over on a fairly regular basis and we are back at square-one. The attitude has to change: Don't try and burn it down, fight to make it better place to work and have a career. That's a key dfiference between Mesa and other regional airlines: You can make a life-long career at other regional airlines if you choose to do so. I'm not saying we don't any pilots at Mesa who have chosen to do so, but these are the guy/gals that are key to changing the company...people who are here for the rest of their aviation careers who have the respect for themselves, career, and family and want to make Mesa a better place to work (for long term)
Until we get union leadership that is constructive and understands the importance of EDUCATION...nothing will change. If we build on those two very important qualities...unity will increase and the level of agressiveness will pick up dramatically. With all this comes standing up to management and BALLS.
Wishing and publicly rooting for a company to put its pilots on the streets and going out of business is absolutely rediculous. We should all have each other's backs in our fights versus management and should be preaching unity amongst each other and figuring out solutions to the current issues we ALL face.
The mentality on this forum is sometimes very disturbing ..."my regional is better than yours" and "this company deserves to go out of business" and "that pilot group sucks." If this type of attitude continues, the future of the regional segment of the airline industry may not be so bright.
Granted, yes we have an atrocious group of upper-level management, but the pilot group has such a tremendous lack of respect for itself...making it nearly impossible for a rock-solid, stand-up-for-itself sort of a union to develop. It is this deep sense of low-morale that is the true root of our lack of ability to fight.
We do not show up to work and think everything is peachy keen with the way we are treated and how the operation runs. True, there are rookie FO's out there that are uneducated about the fundamentals/economics of the industry...they are at EVERY carrier; not just Mesa. Yes, we have a tendancy to pick up some pilots that are just UNABLE to get jobs at the other carriers for various reasons, the majority of new FO's are just as green and uneducated about the industry as the new hires at XJT, SkyWest, Republic...and the list goes on. We at Mesa just have and unusually difficult job of showing new-hires that these conditions are not what it's all about. We have to educate them about the cultures at other carriers and what we DON'T have at Mesa. This is a daunting task that is easier said then done.
The most common conversation in any Mesa flight deck is about the problems which we face and what needs to be done to fix them; however, respect for one's self, career, and work enviroment is what really needs to be preached. These qualities are prominent amongst the pilots leading solid MEC's. You may ask: "Well, why haven't these people stepped forward at Mesa to lead the union?" Good leaders have become statistics of vicious attrtion at our company; therefore, the union leadership turns over on a fairly regular basis and we are back at square-one. The attitude has to change: Don't try and burn it down, fight to make it better place to work and have a career. That's a key dfiference between Mesa and other regional airlines: You can make a life-long career at other regional airlines if you choose to do so. I'm not saying we don't any pilots at Mesa who have chosen to do so, but these are the guy/gals that are key to changing the company...people who are here for the rest of their aviation careers who have the respect for themselves, career, and family and want to make Mesa a better place to work (for long term)
Until we get union leadership that is constructive and understands the importance of EDUCATION...nothing will change. If we build on those two very important qualities...unity will increase and the level of agressiveness will pick up dramatically. With all this comes standing up to management and BALLS.
Wishing and publicly rooting for a company to put its pilots on the streets and going out of business is absolutely rediculous. We should all have each other's backs in our fights versus management and should be preaching unity amongst each other and figuring out solutions to the current issues we ALL face.
The mentality on this forum is sometimes very disturbing ..."my regional is better than yours" and "this company deserves to go out of business" and "that pilot group sucks." If this type of attitude continues, the future of the regional segment of the airline industry may not be so bright.
#29
Yes, I agree that Orenstein has no ethics.
BTW, even if you don't go to a company like Mesa you should prepare for a fall from grace. It happens every year to the good and the bad.
Yes all pilots and all professionals should research the past, present and future (goals) of every company they get in bed with. If your company goes down and you knew that they were headed down the crapper or in the crapper then yes, you don't deserve it but you choose it, but none the less I wish it on no one.
BTW, even if you don't go to a company like Mesa you should prepare for a fall from grace. It happens every year to the good and the bad.
Yes all pilots and all professionals should research the past, present and future (goals) of every company they get in bed with. If your company goes down and you knew that they were headed down the crapper or in the crapper then yes, you don't deserve it but you choose it, but none the less I wish it on no one.
Nicely said.
#30
DsrtAV8R, I respect all pilots (ok maybe no GoJetr's) and I've defended Mesa pilots countless times. No I don't defend their decisions or their company but I will never deny the jump to any Mesa pilot and I will always allow them into the actual, I'll also buy the first round on an overnight.
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