Who likes their job?
11-20-2008 | 08:30 AM
#141
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 714
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From: Hotel
Thank you for proving my point. You failed to show me one job that STARTS you at $50-85K. Yeah, $40K after residency working 24-40+ hour shifts while sleeping in a hospital sounds grand. 
Have fun wading in human excrement as a plumber. Not to mention the beating on the body. And enjoy the 50+ hour work weeks. That sounds great. And when you switch employers you still have to find an employer AND NEGOTIATE the starting salary with n guarantee you'll get what you want. In addition to all of this, you have no idea if you'll be any happier in your new profession. I've seen heart surgeons who pull in $750,000K a year who are flat out MISERABLE. Money may ease stress from time to time, but it DOES NOT BUY HAPPINESS. Maybe you sir, are the one who's out of touch.
Have fun wading in human excrement as a plumber. Not to mention the beating on the body. And enjoy the 50+ hour work weeks. That sounds great. And when you switch employers you still have to find an employer AND NEGOTIATE the starting salary with n guarantee you'll get what you want. In addition to all of this, you have no idea if you'll be any happier in your new profession. I've seen heart surgeons who pull in $750,000K a year who are flat out MISERABLE. Money may ease stress from time to time, but it DOES NOT BUY HAPPINESS. Maybe you sir, are the one who's out of touch.However, flying a 16 hour 4 day trip, only to tell your family you'll be home at 3pm on day 4, and you'll go out to dinner that night, to then have crew scheduling call you for a junior assignment (which they called you out of seniority anyway because they knew where you were - direct violation of the contract) to then double deadhead you to Albany where you will sit in a hotel all day on Saturday before flying the leg back to base that evening....doesn't buy happiness either.
And this isn't the exception to the rule.
Also, you mentioned the beating on the body. What are your thoughts of being exposed to 200x the normal radiation levels while in the flight levels? And if I worked 50 hours a week, I'd be a happy man. I am on day 4 right now of a 6 day trip. Ran out of lotion too.....
For the math challenged among us, that is 144 hours a week. Granted it isn't always this much. But a 4 day trip is minimum of 85 hours. If you think time off is sitting in a hotel room or at the airport on a 4 hour layover..... that doesn't fit my definition. Assume 8 hours of sleep a night. 8 *4 = 32, so 84 - 32 = 52 hours of "work", for 22 hours of pay. Enjoy that.
Last edited by bryris; 11-20-2008 at 08:38 AM.
11-20-2008 | 08:30 AM
#142
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 448
Likes: 0
From: Out
"Low pay and Airline Pilot never existed in the same sentence."
Yeah they did. 20 years ago UPS Capts made 80K a year on a DC8. Entry level regional/commuter jobs paid from 10K to 15K, and you needed 2000 total and 500 multi to get looked at. Lorenzo had broke the union at Continental with ads in the paper for pilots. 75K for Capts. 50K for F/O's.
It's never been an easy career. Not 20 years ago, not 30 years ago. It's never been a high paying career to start out. You have to pay your dues and put in your time. For some, it just turns out not to be worth it. For others, it is. To each his own...
Yeah they did. 20 years ago UPS Capts made 80K a year on a DC8. Entry level regional/commuter jobs paid from 10K to 15K, and you needed 2000 total and 500 multi to get looked at. Lorenzo had broke the union at Continental with ads in the paper for pilots. 75K for Capts. 50K for F/O's.
It's never been an easy career. Not 20 years ago, not 30 years ago. It's never been a high paying career to start out. You have to pay your dues and put in your time. For some, it just turns out not to be worth it. For others, it is. To each his own...
11-20-2008 | 08:31 AM
#143
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,357
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From: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
"I love the idea of ATP's structure... It's a shame that it costs so much."
You can get structure anywhere if you want it and demand it. It's not that big of a thing. It's called a syllabus. ATP is a part 61 flight school, the same as your local FBO.
If you feel the need to pay that kind of money to learn to fly in an SP, though, you are closing the cost gap with the big academies. You'd be better off in a little 150/152, or a 70's vintage 172, if you can't fit in a 150. Don't be put off by the lack of bells and whistles. You don't need it.
Heck, the smartest thing to do is go out and buy a Cherokee 140 for 30K, get your ratings, and instruct in it part time.
You can get structure anywhere if you want it and demand it. It's not that big of a thing. It's called a syllabus. ATP is a part 61 flight school, the same as your local FBO.
If you feel the need to pay that kind of money to learn to fly in an SP, though, you are closing the cost gap with the big academies. You'd be better off in a little 150/152, or a 70's vintage 172, if you can't fit in a 150. Don't be put off by the lack of bells and whistles. You don't need it.
Heck, the smartest thing to do is go out and buy a Cherokee 140 for 30K, get your ratings, and instruct in it part time.
11-20-2008 | 08:38 AM
#144
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,088
Likes: 0
From: B757/767
Look Dan,
Bottom line. If this is something you want to do, then DO IT. People could back and forth on this subject FOREVER. Are there risks? Yes. But isn't there risks with everything? Is there guaranteed satisfaction? No. But where is there? Can this profession be hard? You bet. It's a totally different world. But in the short 4 years I've been in the airlines I've run into a ton of people that love it, are so-so with it, hate it, and others who still dream of leaving their current job and doing it. I've seen guys making tons as lawyers and wall street traders leave it all for flying. They all loved it and never looked back.
This job has sacrafices, but also rewards. One thing that's so important to remember, the grass is always greener on the other side. If you want to do it, then DO IT. You will never know where this ride will take you until you get off. But hey man, isn't that life?
Bottom line. If this is something you want to do, then DO IT. People could back and forth on this subject FOREVER. Are there risks? Yes. But isn't there risks with everything? Is there guaranteed satisfaction? No. But where is there? Can this profession be hard? You bet. It's a totally different world. But in the short 4 years I've been in the airlines I've run into a ton of people that love it, are so-so with it, hate it, and others who still dream of leaving their current job and doing it. I've seen guys making tons as lawyers and wall street traders leave it all for flying. They all loved it and never looked back.
This job has sacrafices, but also rewards. One thing that's so important to remember, the grass is always greener on the other side. If you want to do it, then DO IT. You will never know where this ride will take you until you get off. But hey man, isn't that life?
11-20-2008 | 08:41 AM
#145
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 714
Likes: 0
From: Hotel
Look Dan,
Bottom line. If this is something you want to do, then DO IT. People could back and forth on this subject FOREVER. Are there risks? Yes. But isn't there risks with everything? Is there guaranteed satisfaction? No. But where is there? Can this profession be hard? You bet. It's a totally different world. But in the short 4 years I've been in the airlines I've run into a ton of people that love it, are so-so with it, hate it, and others who still dream of leaving their current job and doing it. I've seen guys making tons as lawyers and wall street traders leave it all for flying. They all loved it and never looked back.
This job has sacrafices, but also rewards. One thing that's so important to remember, the grass is always greener on the other side. If you want to do it, then DO IT. You will never know where this ride will take you until you get off. But hey man, isn't that life?
Bottom line. If this is something you want to do, then DO IT. People could back and forth on this subject FOREVER. Are there risks? Yes. But isn't there risks with everything? Is there guaranteed satisfaction? No. But where is there? Can this profession be hard? You bet. It's a totally different world. But in the short 4 years I've been in the airlines I've run into a ton of people that love it, are so-so with it, hate it, and others who still dream of leaving their current job and doing it. I've seen guys making tons as lawyers and wall street traders leave it all for flying. They all loved it and never looked back.
This job has sacrafices, but also rewards. One thing that's so important to remember, the grass is always greener on the other side. If you want to do it, then DO IT. You will never know where this ride will take you until you get off. But hey man, isn't that life?
11-20-2008 | 08:52 AM
#146
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,088
Likes: 0
From: B757/767
Agreed.
However, flying a 16 hour 4 day trip, only to tell your family you'll be home at 3pm on day 4, and you'll go out to dinner that night, to then have crew scheduling call you for a junior assignment (which they called you out of seniority anyway because they knew where you were - direct violation of the contract) to then double deadhead you to Albany where you will sit in a hotel all day on Saturday before flying the leg back to base that evening....doesn't buy happiness either.
And this isn't the exception to the rule.
Also, you mentioned the beating on the body. What are your thoughts of being exposed to 200x the normal radiation levels while in the flight levels? And if I worked 50 hours a week, I'd be a happy man. I am on day 4 right now of a 6 day trip. Ran out of lotion too.....
For the math challenged among us, that is 144 hours a week. Granted it isn't always this much. But a 4 day trip is minimum of 85 hours. If you think time off is sitting in a hotel room or at the airport on a 4 hour layover..... that doesn't fit my definition. Assume 8 hours of sleep a night. 8 *4 = 32, so 84 - 32 = 52 hours of "work", for 22 hours of pay. Enjoy that.
However, flying a 16 hour 4 day trip, only to tell your family you'll be home at 3pm on day 4, and you'll go out to dinner that night, to then have crew scheduling call you for a junior assignment (which they called you out of seniority anyway because they knew where you were - direct violation of the contract) to then double deadhead you to Albany where you will sit in a hotel all day on Saturday before flying the leg back to base that evening....doesn't buy happiness either.
And this isn't the exception to the rule.
Also, you mentioned the beating on the body. What are your thoughts of being exposed to 200x the normal radiation levels while in the flight levels? And if I worked 50 hours a week, I'd be a happy man. I am on day 4 right now of a 6 day trip. Ran out of lotion too.....
For the math challenged among us, that is 144 hours a week. Granted it isn't always this much. But a 4 day trip is minimum of 85 hours. If you think time off is sitting in a hotel room or at the airport on a 4 hour layover..... that doesn't fit my definition. Assume 8 hours of sleep a night. 8 *4 = 32, so 84 - 32 = 52 hours of "work", for 22 hours of pay. Enjoy that.
Those are some if the hard times. But you're talking extremes. Are you on probation? If so, fly it, record it, and when off probation grieve it. If you're not on probation, I'd be mighty fatigued by day 5. In regards to the family, I never said there weren't sacrafices. How much one handles is based on the individual. That's a private matter that really can't be compared. The radiation doesn't bother me. Sunscreen, sunshades, sunglasses. Done. Many, many guys have had 30+yr careers and have lived to tell about it.
11-20-2008 | 09:13 AM
#148
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,357
Likes: 0
From: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
"Agreed. With this, this thread should be OVER."
Mod note:
We don't simply lock threads without reason. If one is finished discussing, then one can simply walk away from the thread and not click on it anymore. If enough people do that, then the thead dies a natural death.
Mod note:
We don't simply lock threads without reason. If one is finished discussing, then one can simply walk away from the thread and not click on it anymore. If enough people do that, then the thead dies a natural death.
11-20-2008 | 09:18 AM
#149
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 456
Likes: 0
"Agreed. With this, this thread should be OVER."
Mod note:
We don't simply lock threads without reason. If one is finished discussing, then one can simply walk away from the thread and not click on it anymore. If enough people do that, then the thead dies a natural death.
Mod note:
We don't simply lock threads without reason. If one is finished discussing, then one can simply walk away from the thread and not click on it anymore. If enough people do that, then the thead dies a natural death.
Agreed... I'm not done yet. LOL.
Anyways, say i do find a good FBO that's cheap and happens to have an old multi sitting around... Is it possible to get financing outside of the school if they don't offer it?
11-20-2008 | 09:25 AM
#150
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,357
Likes: 0
From: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
The financing programs are a big plus and one thing that draws folks to the academies. Sometimes that's the only way a guy can do it. Sorry, I don't have a good answer for that one other than my "buy your own airplane" advice. It might be easier to get financing for a hard asset rather than a student loan. I don't know.
Hopefully, some other folks will chime in about financing flight training.
Hopefully, some other folks will chime in about financing flight training.
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