Are you confusing reduced rest with Continuous Duty Overnights for the point of this thread? 8 hours is reduced rest, no need to ask for it it is required by FARs

 

I flew for Pinnacle as a Reserve Captain for 3 years. I assume they r still doing high speeds: This is what I did 90% of the time. I always said if the public only knew this type of scheduling they would be pretty surprised. I could only imagine them driving their personal car under same exact schedule with time to and from the hotel on the overnight and all they have to worry about is their own skin vs 50 of greater pax plus crew.

Its only a matter of time when something bad is going to happen.
But I guess the odds are still in pinchanickles favor because no one has had an accident.

The crew is allready quailified for fatigue starting Day 2 then to top it off they assign a mountanous terrain airport with no radar in snow on the last day.

This schedule is straight from the NWA website!
Do the math on total sleep in hotel after 20 minute drive each way.
Also add checking in time walking to room and preparing for quality sleep.
Brutal schedule: The most brutal schedule I have ever flown!
Somehow we as crew managed not to have to go see the chief pilot or faa because we somehow didn't have any incidents.

Day 1 Trip 1
2534 dtw-chs 9:43 pm:11:58PM
2530 chs- dtw 6:00am : 8:17 AM

Day 2 Trip 2
2534 dtw-chs 9:43 pm:11:58PM
2530 chs- dtw 6:00am : 8:17 AM

Day 3 Trip 3
2534 dtw-chs 9:43 pm:11:58PM
2530 chs- dtw 6:00am : 8:17 AM

Day 4 Trip 4
2534 dtw-chs 9:10 pm:10:57PM
2530 chs- dtw 6:20am : 8:36 AM

 

You know, in the past, people were more apt to put up with this nonsence because they knew that they were only at these garbage regionals to put there time in for a few years and then move on up to something better. Now, however, it is becoming more likely that you will spend an entire career at one of these places before you ever have a chance to work at a major. ugh how depressing...

 

He is saying 8 hours in the hotel which is probably more like 9+ hours of "rest".

 

He said something about 8 hours behind the door, which could mean 9+ hours of "rest" when you figure the van ride, check in, and maybe grabbing a dinner or breakfast.

I'm guessing he's saying 8 hours away from the airport doesn't equal 8 hours behind the door.

 

Lakes does it quite a bit. If you think 5 legs on RR is bad, try 10.

 

xjt doesnt have them. compass, skywest, etc

Something to remember when contract negotiations come up

 

Well, let's examine this: It looks to me like a series of 10.5 hour days(containing 6 hour "lunch breaks") with 13.5 hours of rest in between each day. True, it is all on the back side of the clock, but you know that before it starts. The good part of is that the sequence doesn't contain any body clock swaps. Now, if you try and fly this rotation using the 6 hour lunch break as your sole opportunity for sleep and stay awake in CHS every time, then I see where you might get fatigued doing this. The only real challenge flying this rotation is to arrive at the first departure in DTW having swapped your body clock and ready to fly, not having spent the entire day doing a 2-3 leg j/s commute getting to DTW at 8pm. I'll wager that your FOM has a policy statement about just this type of thing.

When I did the math on this, there is "opportunity" for well over 15 hours of sleep in each 24 hour period, I suppose one can get "fatigued" by sleeping too much. It is not the company's responsibility to keep you in your normal personal sleeping schedule. If you can't do this one, I'd recommend that you stay away from international flying.

The real down side I see to this schedule, is that it is just not very productive, unless you like/live in CHS.

Fly Safe

SD

 

Sabre Driver

Yes the math is a very easy way to come up with the rest time that you are suggesting. The math is simple and not common sense view and body clock adjustments that don't normally take place.

The reduced rest guys on these assignments I assure you try to sleep when they are released first thing in the morning but will only average on a good day 4 hrs of sleep. I guarantee these guys would get 8 hrs of sleep if their body would actually adjust. And the lunch break at midnight is simplistic view as well.

I guess somebody could pop some pills to get more sleep but that would not be wise.

I feel for the reduced rest and midnight lunch guys and gals.

Having done these assignments I give them a hell of alot of credit for pulling it off without major incident.

 

You both make good points.

For myself, I love doing stand up overnights. The trick for me is to not drink coffee or caffeine, and sleep as soon as I get home in the morning. I can see that this doesn't work for everybody. Stand ups should be voluntary. At my airline (Comair) standups go very senior.

I would like to point out that standups usually (well, always, from my experience) are one leg out and one leg back. The only problems I've seen is when it's a really long leg, like MSP-SLC or CVG-BGR.

One overlooked benefit to standups is that they allow the company to create more productive trips without reduced rest overnights.

Let's keep the apples and oranges seperate. Reduced rest followed by a 12 hour 6 leg day is one thing, a standup overnight is another.