MESA Ta
#11
So i would expect a lot more $$$ if you have no job security. Kinda like a contract employee. You just never know when it is going to end. And i know it's not like anyone has any kind of job security but nevertheless. You need to make your money now. Not in the next contract cause that might just never happen.
#12
Is that right? That's pretty good if it is based on a 28-bid cycle. Would be better than most regionals out there.
As for everyone else telling the Mesa pilots to burn the house down, are you saying that because you would get their flying if they do? Hard to take the rest of us at our word at telling Mesa pilots to strike when it would surely result in them losing all of their flying.
As for everyone else telling the Mesa pilots to burn the house down, are you saying that because you would get their flying if they do? Hard to take the rest of us at our word at telling Mesa pilots to strike when it would surely result in them losing all of their flying.
#13
Prime Minister/Moderator

Joined: Jan 2006
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Likes: 698
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
I’m not sure what to make of all this. Hopefully the road shows have some more of the logic behind why we should accept this TA. I know discussing this on a public forum is probably not appropriate prior to the road shows but I just can’t help myself. It seems nobody uses the ALAPA MAG forum.
Anyway for those who have read the TA on the ALPA website:
What do you make of having to check in for our trip no sooner than 24 hours prior and no later than 2 hours prior? I know a lot of my commuter flights don’t arrive until 2 hours prior to my show time.
I’m not totally thrilled on the language regarding pairing construction. It says that the company will build pairings to maximize pilot’s flight time for a given period. That really doesn’t mean anything. The way to for the company to build efficient lines of time is to put a guarantee that we will get paid a minimum of say 4 hours for each day we show for duty.
It also states there will be 2 ALPA scheduling committee members will be able to participate in the pairing construction process. Is this different to what we have now?
I’m very skeptical of the PBS system and how Mesa will manage it. For me PBS should be about making our schedules as flexible as possible. Any time I’ve tried to FLICA something it gets denied for insufficient reserve coverage. How will this be different in the PBS system and I’m talking about switching a trip for another trip on completely different days, not just picking up stuff on my days off or swapping flights on days I am already scheduled to fly? That would be true schedule flexibility.
I also noticed they have taken away the ability to pick up or trade trips out of our domicile. I never had it happen but always liked the idea that I could pick up flying or swap trips with a domicile closer to my home.
BTW the 11 days off is per calendar month.
Anyway for those who have read the TA on the ALPA website:
What do you make of having to check in for our trip no sooner than 24 hours prior and no later than 2 hours prior? I know a lot of my commuter flights don’t arrive until 2 hours prior to my show time.
I’m not totally thrilled on the language regarding pairing construction. It says that the company will build pairings to maximize pilot’s flight time for a given period. That really doesn’t mean anything. The way to for the company to build efficient lines of time is to put a guarantee that we will get paid a minimum of say 4 hours for each day we show for duty.
It also states there will be 2 ALPA scheduling committee members will be able to participate in the pairing construction process. Is this different to what we have now?
I’m very skeptical of the PBS system and how Mesa will manage it. For me PBS should be about making our schedules as flexible as possible. Any time I’ve tried to FLICA something it gets denied for insufficient reserve coverage. How will this be different in the PBS system and I’m talking about switching a trip for another trip on completely different days, not just picking up stuff on my days off or swapping flights on days I am already scheduled to fly? That would be true schedule flexibility.
I also noticed they have taken away the ability to pick up or trade trips out of our domicile. I never had it happen but always liked the idea that I could pick up flying or swap trips with a domicile closer to my home.
BTW the 11 days off is per calendar month.
Check in 2-24 hours prior!?!? BE CAREFUL! If you have to be on a company network (ie physivally at the airport), then you will basically be getting two hours of ready-reserve at the start off each trip!
If you're a commuter, you don't want to check in from home, cuz if you don't make your flight, guess what? You LIED, and they can fire you for that!
You are dead-on about the pairing construction...without PRECISE language, words like "maximize" are meaningless...sounds like a synonym for "to the extent possible".
PBS is worrse than useless without absolute control of system parameters by way of contract language. The auto drop feature will only work if you have language requiring a certain reserve coverage.
Soundds like another winner from MAG ALPA
#14
Yeah I know with all the baggage etc. blah blah blah I can see the rebuttal already.
#15
Check in 2-24 hours prior!?!? BE CAREFUL! If you have to be on a company network (ie physivally at the airport), then you will basically be getting two hours of ready-reserve at the start off each trip!
If you're a commuter, you don't want to check in from home, cuz if you don't make your flight, guess what? You LIED, and they can fire you for that!
You are dead-on about the pairing construction...without PRECISE language, words like "maximize" are meaningless...sounds like a synonym for "to the extent possible".
PBS is worrse than useless without absolute control of system parameters by way of contract language. The auto drop feature will only work if you have language requiring a certain reserve coverage.
Soundds like another winner from MAG ALPA
If you're a commuter, you don't want to check in from home, cuz if you don't make your flight, guess what? You LIED, and they can fire you for that!
You are dead-on about the pairing construction...without PRECISE language, words like "maximize" are meaningless...sounds like a synonym for "to the extent possible".
PBS is worrse than useless without absolute control of system parameters by way of contract language. The auto drop feature will only work if you have language requiring a certain reserve coverage.
Soundds like another winner from MAG ALPA

Unlike rick I have more faith in MAG pilots willingness to hold out for something better. I wish them the best of luck to hang in there and hang tough.
#16
PBS is worrse than useless without absolute control of system parameters by way of contract language. The auto drop feature will only work if you have language requiring a certain reserve coverage.
I guess you would need language that states minimum reserve coverage to be xx%. This xx% should be enough to allow a yy number PBS transactions that will call upon reserves. Then when reserve coverage drops to zz% due to PBS transactions no more PBS transactions will be permitted.
My concern is also the big picture. For instance if we sign this contract JO now has fixed costs for the next 2 years and can therefore make it easier for Mesa to get financing for whatever financial time bombs are looming. If we don't sign this contract will Mesa go tits up and will we be out of a job? For me signing a contract like this to keep my job might be worth while.
On the other hand now could be the time to negotiate for everything we want. JO is over a barrel and knows he can't get financing without a pilot contract and the company will go tits up without it. Therefore now is the time when we have most leverage over the company and now is precisely the time when ALPA needs to stand their ground and negotiate for everything we need.
I'm hoping our ALPA guys provide us good leadership and insight into the big picture at the road shows.
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
From: CL-65 CA
How do you put that kind of language in a contract? For the companies that have PBS and are happy with it how do you control the reserve coverage? Surely the company can decide to staff the airline anyway they choose. I can't imagine putting in a line that says 'minimum reserve coverage each day should be xx% of the number of pilots on roster' would help the PBS issues because the company would always operate at xx% reserve therefore would have reason to deny any PBS operations.
I guess you would need language that states minimum reserve coverage to be xx%. This xx% should be enough to allow a yy number PBS transactions that will call upon reserves. Then when reserve coverage drops to zz% due to PBS transactions no more PBS transactions will be permitted.
My concern is also the big picture. For instance if we sign this contract JO now has fixed costs for the next 2 years and can therefore make it easier for Mesa to get financing for whatever financial time bombs are looming. If we don't sign this contract will Mesa go tits up and will we be out of a job? For me signing a contract like this to keep my job might be worth while.
On the other hand now could be the time to negotiate for everything we want. JO is over a barrel and knows he can't get financing without a pilot contract and the company will go tits up without it. Therefore now is the time when we have most leverage over the company and now is precisely the time when ALPA needs to stand their ground and negotiate for everything we need.
I'm hoping our ALPA guys provide us good leadership and insight into the big picture at the road shows.
I guess you would need language that states minimum reserve coverage to be xx%. This xx% should be enough to allow a yy number PBS transactions that will call upon reserves. Then when reserve coverage drops to zz% due to PBS transactions no more PBS transactions will be permitted.
My concern is also the big picture. For instance if we sign this contract JO now has fixed costs for the next 2 years and can therefore make it easier for Mesa to get financing for whatever financial time bombs are looming. If we don't sign this contract will Mesa go tits up and will we be out of a job? For me signing a contract like this to keep my job might be worth while.
On the other hand now could be the time to negotiate for everything we want. JO is over a barrel and knows he can't get financing without a pilot contract and the company will go tits up without it. Therefore now is the time when we have most leverage over the company and now is precisely the time when ALPA needs to stand their ground and negotiate for everything we need.
I'm hoping our ALPA guys provide us good leadership and insight into the big picture at the road shows.
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,530
Likes: 0
How do you put that kind of language in a contract? For the companies that have PBS and are happy with it how do you control the reserve coverage? Surely the company can decide to staff the airline anyway they choose. I can't imagine putting in a line that says 'minimum reserve coverage each day should be xx% of the number of pilots on roster' would help the PBS issues because the company would always operate at xx% reserve therefore would have reason to deny any PBS operations.
I guess you would need language that states minimum reserve coverage to be xx%. This xx% should be enough to allow a yy number PBS transactions that will call upon reserves. Then when reserve coverage drops to zz% due to PBS transactions no more PBS transactions will be permitted.
My concern is also the big picture. For instance if we sign this contract JO now has fixed costs for the next 2 years and can therefore make it easier for Mesa to get financing for whatever financial time bombs are looming. If we don't sign this contract will Mesa go tits up and will we be out of a job? For me signing a contract like this to keep my job might be worth while.
On the other hand now could be the time to negotiate for everything we want. JO is over a barrel and knows he can't get financing without a pilot contract and the company will go tits up without it. Therefore now is the time when we have most leverage over the company and now is precisely the time when ALPA needs to stand their ground and negotiate for everything we need.
I'm hoping our ALPA guys provide us good leadership and insight into the big picture at the road shows.
I guess you would need language that states minimum reserve coverage to be xx%. This xx% should be enough to allow a yy number PBS transactions that will call upon reserves. Then when reserve coverage drops to zz% due to PBS transactions no more PBS transactions will be permitted.
My concern is also the big picture. For instance if we sign this contract JO now has fixed costs for the next 2 years and can therefore make it easier for Mesa to get financing for whatever financial time bombs are looming. If we don't sign this contract will Mesa go tits up and will we be out of a job? For me signing a contract like this to keep my job might be worth while.
On the other hand now could be the time to negotiate for everything we want. JO is over a barrel and knows he can't get financing without a pilot contract and the company will go tits up without it. Therefore now is the time when we have most leverage over the company and now is precisely the time when ALPA needs to stand their ground and negotiate for everything we need.
I'm hoping our ALPA guys provide us good leadership and insight into the big picture at the road shows.
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
From: CL-65 CA
What we want is more information in order to make the best (most reasonable) decision. Hopefully that will be fulfilled at the roadshow.
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