That is getting it right - standard pay and senority rights if you go to
another regional too! All of these likely require a threat to strike, but spreading the flying makes it unlikely any one airline will ever strike again. Every other airline will fight each other like dogs over a bone to get all the struck work the mainlines offer. If there is a way to change things, it would probably require the believable threat of a general strike. Facing a total regional shutdown, mainlines would have to pay what the job is worth or pull all the flying back up to the mainlines (and hire).

 

It’s because of people like you, why we pilot do not get paid what we‘re worth. You give in to management to lower the standards and we all have to suffer. Think about the time and money you spent to get to where you are now. Think about the responsibility and the risk you take every day. You are worth a lot more than what you think. Have pride of what you do and do not give in to scumbags like JO. You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

Ashamed? Why? For asking questions and trying to educate himself as to what is the best and how it happened last time? That is the sole purpose of this forum, to learn from others and that is what he is trying to do. He is asking for advice, give it, don't insult him for asking.

 

And this coming from a CRJ200 FO. I bet you dont get paid what you are worth, so take a stand and call in and tell them that....and dont go to work until they pay you what your worth.

 

"only improvements are block or better and 11 days off for reserve"

First off you left out line guarantees which is huge. You make it sound like block or better isn't a big deal. Block or better is an enormous deal for Mesa. Read some old posts on here, everyone said JO will never give up block or better. Ask the guys in ORD, IAD, or JFK how important block or better is to them. You say "pathetic raises." The 2.1% in 2010 may not seem like much, but the block or better will equate to a huge raise for lots of guys that spend more time taxing and sitting in the penalty box than flying. 11 days off for reserves is also a huge improvement. I realize that the people who are on here saying "burn it down" or "vote no" without even seeing the TA probably aren't on reserve but I am and an extra 30 days off a year sounds pretty good to me. I have read the TA and I think it is a big improvement to what we have now. Despite what someone else said on this thread I don't think we are in a very good position to negotiate with the economy the way it is and the airline in the financial situation it is in right now. The only downside I see to this TA is the PBS with almost no restrictions or guidelines for the company, which I acknowledge as a huge downside but I think it is manageable for 22 months until we start negotiating again. Go to the roadshows, get informed on the how's and why's of the TA, look at the charts that alpa has showing how this TA would compare to other regionals and you can come to your own conclusions. My conclusion is that this is going to be an improvement for the pilots in a time when most other regionals are taking concessions and furloughs so I think it is worth doing. Raise the house slowly my friends.

 

You're going to make the choices, not me so I'll say one more thing and be done with it....

Think about who JO is. Think about where Mesa stands right now. Think about why he's offering anything at all in this TA. It's only so that in the end he will get more out of you for less money.

Block or better is becoming more or less an industry standard at the regional level and any arbitrator will give it to you for little or no loss elsewhere.

PBS with zero restrictions will have you sitting 2-3 hours every time and doing 7 legs with min rest overnights every day of the month. Starting at 6am and finishing at 9pm. Think about that for a minute. There would be nothing to stop it or bid around it. Kiss your 2 1/3 more days off goodbye if you commute.

JO would not agree to block or better unless he knew he could take it back again with PBS. I would never agree to PBS, and especially not at Mesa. Best of luck to you regardless.

 

Is there pay protection? Block or better don't mean squat if they cancel your flights and you don't get paid. If you are awarded an 85 hour line and get paid 70 that's crap. Inform yourself. The only people I'd trust less than ALPA in negotiations is JO. If you push things back 2 years by taking this there will just be a new excuse in 2 more years. Not to mention when JO has you, he'll drag the next round of negotiations on forever.

 

No it's not. Air Wiskey's basic rules (Duty rig: 2:1; Trip rig: 4:1, Minimum 12 days off per month, An extra day off if arrive after 02:00 on the last "day" of a trip) would be a big deal (An "enormous deal" would be getting Delta's work rules or pay on par with Southwest's). These things are right off the Air Wiskey page of APC, and are what all airlines should have as a basis.

Mesa already pays historic trip values, which take into account most of the taxi time. Sure, it doesn't cover a blizzard in one of these cities - true. That being said, block or better is like putting a band-aid on a gaping wound - it's just not enough.

Appearances in this case are not deceiving. 2.1% in 2010 is actually a paycut, b/c it doesn't even keep up with the Consumer Price Index. The CPI has gone up over 18% since 2003, when the last Mesa TA was signed. You'd have to get 19% raises across the board to just keep up with inflation.

True. But signing a TA for 1 huge improvement for 15% of the pilot group is not a good decision for the pilot group as a whole. Besides, Air Wiskey has 12 days off for all pilots, including reserves. And that's after taking concessions.

While Mesa's current contract is not great, you currently would be taking concessions in the following areas:

- No min guarantee for line-holders
- increased training note
- PBS
- required flight check-in
- Freedom certificate lock
- pairing construction language
- no trip trade or pick-up out of domicile
- Reduction in guarantee pay over the year (910 hours versus 909.96)
- Loss of pay override for VOL pick-up
- inability to decline a standing bid award

How do you arrive @ the conclusion that this TA is an improvement when you're taking so many concessions? What you're doing is joining all the other regionals who've taken concessions recently - why join them? Especially when they had more than you, so, even with concessions, they end up with a better contract then Mesa currently has. One of the few things Mesa has not done is take concessions (they didn't take any in 2003 - with the exception of a change to 'move days' language that was slipped by them) - don't take them now either.

You're not, and it shows in the TA that has been negotiated. Continue with the current agreement for another year until things improve rather than taking concessions. If you take concessions now, you'd have to have a reasonable belief that you'd share in the gains when the company was making $. That didn't happen for Mesa's pilots from 2004-2007 when Mesa accumulated over a quarter of a billion dollars, so it's not logical to think things will be different in the future (the only airline that would even consider such thinking would be Southwest).

What about if you don't finish negotiating until 82 months from now. Ask ASA - it happens.

As a reserve FO, this is probably your first airline gig. I highly suggest you spend as much time in the crew rooms, @ MesaHub.com (the forum for Mesa pilots), and talking to your CA's as possible about this new TA and the ramifications of it. One of the problems with Mesa is that most of the guys who care about these issues are often the same proactive individuals who move on to better carriers. That's not going to happen for a bit (there's nowhere to go, really), so those who are at the regionals now are going to have to make a stand themselves, not rely on riding the coattails of those who have gone before you.

In short, I respectfully disagree with your analysis, 'UNDGUY' - if the TA does come to pass, I hope your analysis is more accurate than mine.

 

You obviously are new, otherwise you would see that this contract is a slap in the face.

You do understand that PBS, line guarantee and block or better are tied together, don't you? Meaning if we decide we don't like PBS and end it, we lose block or better, and line guarantee.

Here are some other cons to help you see what a piece of trash it is:

1)No per diem rate increase - remains 1.30/hr.
2)No min guarantee for line-holders - only reserves are guar. 70 hours/month
3)increased training note
4)PBS
5) required flight check-in - must check in now for trips at least 2 hours prior
6) no trip trade or pick-up out of domicile - we can do this right now
7) Reduction in guarantee pay over the year (910 hours versus 909.96) - due to PBS
8)Loss of pay override for VOL pick-up - open time currently pays 150%
9)inability to decline a standing bid award - something we can do now
10) still 50% DH pay
11) A 2% raise for F/O's in 2010

The biggest for me:
200% pay for "improper reassignments." That's the company saying, "we'll pay you 200% when we violate this contract."

If it weren't for block or better, this contract could be worse than the one we work under right now.

 

I'd say "Despite block or better, this contract is worse than the one we work under right now."

So many concessions, and for the following gains:

- small raise for FO's
- significantly more days off for reserves
- 2 more days off annually for line holders
- 'block or better' by day (is it 'by day' or 'by leg'? I've seen both interpretations, though obviously, 'by leg' is better)

When you take lots of concessions but get some gains, that's still a concessionary contract to me. Your analysis may vary.