Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums - Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. Join our community today and start interacting with existing members. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free.


User Tag List

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-11-2008, 07:53 AM   #11  
Line Holder
 
copcar1988's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: EMB CA
Posts: 40
Default

Is there a copy of the TA that we can download?
copcar1988 is offline  
Old 12-11-2008, 08:19 AM   #12  
Gets Weekends Off
 
TheDashRocks's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: DHC-8 CA Furloughed
Posts: 304
Default

[quote=winglet;516238]A Call to all Professional Airline Pilots

The MESA pilots just voted in a 21 month contract. In September, 2010, there will be 12 ALPA airlines simultaneously involved in section six negotiations. Those of us involved have never had such a good “pattern bargaining” situation. We can join together and bring the airline pilot profession back from the dead only if we support each other in our struggles instead of encouraging division. I can guarantee everyone that it is the MESA pilot group’s goal to obtain the industry leading contract.

Awesome post! We have to look beyond our parochial petty differences and focus on how to all move forward together.



[quote=macflyer;516265]I find it difficult to understand how you can be proud of getting a contract that in some way resembles the next worst contract in the industry NOW. You guys just went to bad from worst and thats not because your heros and tough negotiators.

Speaking for myself, I am proud to be part of a pilot group that stood firm and ended an alter-ego non-union operation and halted management's plans to cherry pick mainline aircraft flying during the USAirways reorganization.

They had to swallow some bitter pills to do it, but the profession is better off. If more pilot groups had done so, we would all be better off today. This new contract is one of the few non-concessionary agreements of the decade.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BURflyer View Post
You can write a book if you want. The fact is that Mesa pilots passed this TA. No one cares about the trimmings, they care about the main course dinner. Up until today most gave the benefit of doubt to the mesa pilots of being abused and that it isn't their fault they had to work under the 03/08 contract, it was job preservation. This TA however confirms what most already have known about Mesa pilots and will now be justified. I'm sorry you're going to have to be a part of it, you sound like one of the good guys.
It is easy to ignore the facts that Winglet has laid out and heckle from the cheap seats on an anonyous forum. Does denigrating an entire pilot group make you feel better about your own dismal situation?

The Dash Whisperer
TheDashRocks is offline  
Old 12-11-2008, 08:36 AM   #13  
*********
 
paxhauler85's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,068
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IFLY22 View Post
I may be wrong here bc i dont understand the lingo... but im pretty sure comair has a min reserve guarantee of 75 hours monthly. correct me if im mistaken.
You are correct but wiglet mistyped. Our guarantee for lineholders and reserve guys is 75.83 hours, and 11 days off.
paxhauler85 is offline  
Old 12-11-2008, 08:42 AM   #14  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Mason32's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Reclined
Posts: 2,167
Default

YOU have control over who you will work for... do not even try to pass this along as it's managements fault. You enable them to whipsaw by working there. You can yell and stamp your feet all you want, then fact is that without YOU there would be no MESA; and the rest of the industry would be better of with them gone.

You have some nice ideals, put your money where your mouth is, and resign.
Mason32 is offline  
Old 12-11-2008, 09:23 AM   #15  
Gets Weekends Off
 
cencal83406's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,123
Default

I think I see the point of this post.... but you're giving to the wrong people. Many of these people are closed minded. You need to get your MEC to talk to TSAs MEC to talk to RAHs MEC etc. Get all the MEC chairs in the same room with what they all want pay- and work-rules wise, come up with one contract that each regional will present to their airline, and make no concessions to management. If they don't accept it, all regionals can go on strike at the same time.
cencal83406 is offline  
Old 12-11-2008, 10:26 AM   #16  
Banned
 
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cencal83406 View Post
I think I see the point of this post.... but you're giving to the wrong people. Many of these people are closed minded. You need to get your MEC to talk to TSAs MEC to talk to RAHs MEC etc. Get all the MEC chairs in the same room with what they all want pay- and work-rules wise, come up with one contract that each regional will present to their airline, and make no concessions to management. If they don't accept it, all regionals can go on strike at the same time.
This is what is presently happening with the Fee For Departure Task Force. Except for the "all regionals can go on strike at the same time" part.
Nevets is offline  
Old 12-11-2008, 11:17 AM   #17  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Oskeewowow's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 324
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason32 View Post
YOU have control over who you will work for... do not even try to pass this along as it's managements fault. You enable them to whipsaw by working there. You can yell and stamp your feet all you want, then fact is that without YOU there would be no MESA; and the rest of the industry would be better of with them gone.

You have some nice ideals, put your money where your mouth is, and resign.
You've got to be kidding. Asserting that someone should resign with almost no chance at gaining another job in these terrible times is absurd. I agree that the industry would be a better place if Mesa pilots were absorbed into better companies, but asking someone to quit is absolutely ridiculous.

I think we've seen especially in the last 2 years, that there will always be another pilot waiting in the wings for your job. Half of Mesa's pilot group could quit, and management would fill those positions within months with eager flight instructors just jumping at the chance to touch a jet. In fact, management counts on that to a certain degree (ala McDonalds cheap labor)
Oskeewowow is offline  
Old 12-11-2008, 11:24 AM   #18  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Kenny's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Professional Expat
Posts: 320
Default

Mesa pilots will never have my respect; You can pat yourselves on the back and trumpet how great this is but this is simply too little too late.

This TA, while it does offer improvements to the current Mesa contract, offers minor improvements on contracts that have not only been in place for almost 8 years but have since become concessionary.

You want my respect, then get a contract that has the following, amongst other things:

Block or better, on a leg by leg basis.
Trip and duty rigs.
Industry average pay rates + an increasing % each year.
Hotel rooms on sits in excess of 4.5 hours.
Full CX and DH pay.
150% open time pay.

Your contract has been the yard stick with which the rest of the regional industry has been beaten around the balls with, for the last few years.

You may choose to claim that you are not responsible for the way your company is run BUT we all have a choice. If you've chosen to work for Mesa, then you are either totally blind to the choices or you've accepted the conditions. Which in my book, is no different to holding your hands up and saying it's ok!
Kenny is offline  
Old 12-11-2008, 12:19 PM   #19  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
winglet's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 466
Default

You are correct IFLY22. I mistyped. Min reserve line guarantee is 75.83.

Last edited by winglet; 12-11-2008 at 02:12 PM.
winglet is offline  
Old 12-11-2008, 01:03 PM   #20  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
winglet's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 466
Default Industry Standard Is The Word!

Fellow Aviators,

It appears some of you are misunderstanding my original post. Let me try and clarify for you. I am as angry or even angrier than the rest of the pilots in this industry but try to understand that many of us are doing the best we can under the circumstances.

I actually agree with many of the points that some of the anti-MESA posters on this board are making but please don't stereotype 1200 people. It's a small mind that can't differentiate between individuals. If you wan't to see who can out bash MESA I'll win that fight.

I am simply asking you to look at the history and just be thankful that you are currently in a good position with your management and your contract. Telling people to quit their career is not going to solve anything. There will simply be replacement. Hopefully it isn't you. There are a lot of good people at MESA who have been fighting the fight a lot longer than many people posting on these forums have been alive.

My point is that as long as we let the anti-labor airline managements whipsaw us as they've been doing we'll never get anywhere. There will always be a "best contract" and a "worst contract". Instead of expending your energy bashing the poor suckers with the "worst contract" use some constructive criticism and do what you can do on your end to help get them that elusive "industry standard" contract.

As I said before, there will be twelve airlines in section six negotiations in September, 2010. I agree that we should let our individual MEC's know that this will be an excellent oportunity to standardize the contracts at that time. That is what "pattern bargaining" means.

I am attempting to get the regional pilots to stop the hateful nonsense and instead educate the new guys. Let's pick each other up instead of trying to knock each other down. Half of the guys I fly with don't have a rudimentary knowledge of what a contract is much less any idea of how negotiations work. There are thousands of young men and women out there that will work for the first airline that calls them back. Management counts on that. They also count on you to teach them how to hate the other regionals.

Many of the newer pilots have no idea of what a pre 9/11 airline industry was like. It was a much more enjoyable environment. Pilots from different companies would go out of their way for each other in every aspect. I'd like to see those days return and I believe it is possible with a little education on how the Railway Labor Act works and the techniques and tactics of the union-busters. Every time a pilot insults another pilot a union-buster chuckles to himself a little.

Be thankful that you are not the current scapegoat in the industry and let's hope that we can come together with an industry standard that will illiminate the hatefullness that has been growing amongst us.

Good Luck,

Winglet
winglet is offline  
 
 
 

 
Post Reply
 



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Colgan Pilots: Reply to Managment Emails FlyJSH Regional 19 08-11-2010 04:29 PM
Professional Commercial Pilots! lns91 Cargo 8 10-22-2008 07:31 PM
Usapa attempts to have AWA pilots fired. cactiboss Major 87 10-03-2008 03:24 PM
Merger Basics For the Future flyharm Mergers and Acquisitions 5 09-11-2008 06:08 PM
Thanks UPS pilots for showing a lot of class and good sportsmanship. B727DRVR Cargo 14 08-22-2008 03:23 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:10 AM.