US Airways Express 2nd Year First Officers
12-25-2008, 05:50 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: RJ FO
Posts: 171
Not picking up open time may not bring people back any sooner but look at it this way. If people stop picking up open time and picking up their phones (volitiering for JM) then it would give the pilot group a more realistic view of how the company is staffed, and with that they can have a better hand when dealing with MGT. If the reserves are only flying 25 hours a month so be it. So make the company put them to work. Why is people so inclined to help the company out so much when there are people on the streets. When a bully punches your friend in the face do you turn around and help him with his math homework?
Please excuse the spelling and grammer had a few drinks tonight......
Please excuse the spelling and grammer had a few drinks tonight......
12-25-2008, 07:38 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 375
I think its funny to see people get on these boards who have been on the job for a whole year, maybe, talking about "brothers and sisters" and "solidarity" telling others who are much more experienced in this business what they should and should not do. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but lets get real. I couldnt care less if people pick up open time. I can honestly say, I wouldnt care if I was furloughed either. Don't automatically assume people pick open time because they are greedy and just want more. Maybe for some, but that's not always the case. I know people at a certain US Express carrier who pick up open time. These people range from 1st year FO's to check airman. There is no solidarity here. That is obvious in our contract. The FO's were sold down the river with the excuse "you'll be Captains in a year anyway". The more senior guys here could care less about about some 8 month FO. Harsh, but it's reality. TK and KH will bring those furloughed back when they are good and ready and not a minute sooner. Pick up open time, don't pick it up, who cares. Spend more time focusing on getting people where they need to go safely, and less on what others, who you don't even know, are doing.
12-25-2008, 09:26 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 853
right on the money. take the emotion and frustration out of it and you'll see the big picture. PS trackpilot. I was all about getting you guys the medical when the first 27 were anounced, it was the senior guys who opposed it. One capt in particular that I remember saying, "those guys never payed any dues, 250 hr pilots, I'm not paying for that sh!t". and it would be more like a $150 out of every check since more were later forloughed. So don't take it out on the junior FO who might have an unexpected payment come up. Do the math. Ofcoarse, I do hope to see you back to work soon and good luck
12-25-2008, 10:19 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: A320 Right
Posts: 219
I will never cross a picket line nore will I ever work for a unionless airline, but being furloughed is something you signed up for when you took on this profession. it is a part of life...it has been happening for years. If you didn't plan and prepare for it then you are stupid and uneducated...when it comes to open time...I pick it up at premium rate so I can pay my student loans off faster. I do this because I have to take care of me. Thats all there is to it.
12-26-2008, 01:48 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 744 CA
Posts: 4,772
Originally Posted by teamdothis
COMPLETLY AGREE
No one should pick up open time ever! what you think because you have bills and family that the pilot on the street dosent?
There is no way to justify picking up open time! I have bills to pay, i have a family, i have a new baby due in less than a month with no insurance because i am already on furlough. what makes your situation any tougher than mine. So do you still want to pick up open time?DONT DO IT!!!! (with that said it is wrong to name drop in a public forum)
ALSO AGREE!
on a personal note i also feel that if you are strictly a GA pilot then no your opinion is not wanted on the matter
No one should pick up open time ever! what you think because you have bills and family that the pilot on the street dosent?
There is no way to justify picking up open time! I have bills to pay, i have a family, i have a new baby due in less than a month with no insurance because i am already on furlough. what makes your situation any tougher than mine. So do you still want to pick up open time?DONT DO IT!!!! (with that said it is wrong to name drop in a public forum) ALSO AGREE!
on a personal note i also feel that if you are strictly a GA pilot then no your opinion is not wanted on the matter
And there you have it.... most against and a few who will for their own personal gain. Such is the nature of the world. Good luck to all of those awaiting recall.
12-26-2008, 05:17 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: "if it's got wings, I can crash it".
Posts: 886
Originally Posted by Florida Flyer
I really think that newarkblows hit the nail on the head: Although picking up open time with people on furlough may be emotionally upsetting, the concern is rationally unfounded.
(emphasis added)
As fullflank says,
"Although I would love to think that if no one picks up open time those guys would get recalled but thats hard to imagine when rsv pilots, including myself are only flying 25 hrs/month. " (emphasis added)
The reality of the situation is that even if everyone stopped picking up open time entirely, no furloughees would be recalled. When reserve pilots are only flying 25 hours a month, the company is not anywhere close to being short on pilots. So what if everyone stopped picking up open time? Reserves would then fly 50-60 hours a month...still well below reserve guarantee. One can not make a rational argument that picking up open time is contributing to pilots being on furlough when all evidence points to a properly staffed airline. Granted, if reserve pilots were flying 75, 80, or more hours per month, one could argue that picking up open time is allowing the company to get by with less pilots, but the argument does not hold water when reserves are flying 25 hours per month.
A previous poster mentioned the company building numerous high credit lines. In regard to high credit lines, I do not fault the company or the union. We were hired to fly airplanes and the company is building lines according to our contract. An airline is not in business to employ as many pilots as possible, so I do not fault anyone (the company or the union) for allowing numerous high value lines from being constructed. The company is simply using us efficiently within the bounds of our contract.
If someone choses to pick up open time on his day off, I could care less. Why? Because it makes no difference to people on furlough whether he does or not. I only reserve the right to change my opinion if the facts change (i.e. if reserves are flying over minimum guarantee...more than 72 hrs a month...the company is approaching an understaffed condition and should recall pilots). Until such time, the company is properly staffed and the picking up of open time is of no consequence to anyone. I realize some my disagree with me, but PLEASE respond with LOGIC and FACTS....not emotional arguments (eg: open timers are stabbing fellow pilots in the back).
Finally, for the record, I personally have not picked up open time since we began furloughing, but simply because I do not want to work on my days off.
(emphasis added)
As fullflank says,
"Although I would love to think that if no one picks up open time those guys would get recalled but thats hard to imagine when rsv pilots, including myself are only flying 25 hrs/month. " (emphasis added)
The reality of the situation is that even if everyone stopped picking up open time entirely, no furloughees would be recalled. When reserve pilots are only flying 25 hours a month, the company is not anywhere close to being short on pilots. So what if everyone stopped picking up open time? Reserves would then fly 50-60 hours a month...still well below reserve guarantee. One can not make a rational argument that picking up open time is contributing to pilots being on furlough when all evidence points to a properly staffed airline. Granted, if reserve pilots were flying 75, 80, or more hours per month, one could argue that picking up open time is allowing the company to get by with less pilots, but the argument does not hold water when reserves are flying 25 hours per month.
A previous poster mentioned the company building numerous high credit lines. In regard to high credit lines, I do not fault the company or the union. We were hired to fly airplanes and the company is building lines according to our contract. An airline is not in business to employ as many pilots as possible, so I do not fault anyone (the company or the union) for allowing numerous high value lines from being constructed. The company is simply using us efficiently within the bounds of our contract.
If someone choses to pick up open time on his day off, I could care less. Why? Because it makes no difference to people on furlough whether he does or not. I only reserve the right to change my opinion if the facts change (i.e. if reserves are flying over minimum guarantee...more than 72 hrs a month...the company is approaching an understaffed condition and should recall pilots). Until such time, the company is properly staffed and the picking up of open time is of no consequence to anyone. I realize some my disagree with me, but PLEASE respond with LOGIC and FACTS....not emotional arguments (eg: open timers are stabbing fellow pilots in the back).
Finally, for the record, I personally have not picked up open time since we began furloughing, but simply because I do not want to work on my days off.
12-26-2008, 05:17 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
Originally Posted by CAPTAIN INSANO
It also hurts the pilot group. It is up to the pilot group to police their members, discreetly.
Surprise Line Check!
Surprise Line Check!
Perhaps you are suggesting that a Line Check Airman should deliberately fail or give an unsatisfactory report to a pilot during a line check as a form of punishment.
Let see if you feel the same way about that after a Check Airman, who may not like you personally, decides to abuse his/her power and fail YOU on a Line Check.
If this is what you are implying, and I think it is, it speaks volumes about you as a person with regards to integrity, professionalism, and maturity.
12-26-2008, 06:31 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Hot tub for now
Posts: 1,203
I can see both sides of the issue. In a way it would be nice to know that if we didn't pick up open time that T.K. would bring back the furloughes. But we are kidding ourselves if we think that we have any influence on what they do in Dayton. When they are good and ready they will bring the pilots back. But i think it is great when management has to pay 1.5 times for open time, and we get a minimum day pay. So for a quick out and back captains can make an extra $400, F/O's $200. And the company still has to pay the reserves. If people didn't pick up open time a pilot can't get the 1.5times pay and a reserve will be called out.
If you are a reserve pilot first or second year at PSA you won't break the $20k barrier. Per Diem will be almost nothing, and if you commute and have a crash pad/car or hotel to pay for you are really hurting. What's wrong with someone trying to make some cash? Not like they handed out the furlough notices. How about people trying to get their 1000hrs PIC so when the real airlines start hiring they are ready for it? Flying 30-40hrs a month on reserve it will take 3 years to get that. Picking up 20hrs a month will drop it fast. Will you be doing the junior pilots a favor by picking up open time so you can move on and leave an empty slot?
Lastly the lines at PSA are 80-90hrs. Why is that OK? If people really wanted the F/O's back on property then they will call in sick to reduce the monthly hours to a reasonable 75hrs. One sick call per two months. The end of the month to the beginning of the next. But that would never happen cause we have a "Do as i say not as i do" attitude.
If you are a reserve pilot first or second year at PSA you won't break the $20k barrier. Per Diem will be almost nothing, and if you commute and have a crash pad/car or hotel to pay for you are really hurting. What's wrong with someone trying to make some cash? Not like they handed out the furlough notices. How about people trying to get their 1000hrs PIC so when the real airlines start hiring they are ready for it? Flying 30-40hrs a month on reserve it will take 3 years to get that. Picking up 20hrs a month will drop it fast. Will you be doing the junior pilots a favor by picking up open time so you can move on and leave an empty slot?
Lastly the lines at PSA are 80-90hrs. Why is that OK? If people really wanted the F/O's back on property then they will call in sick to reduce the monthly hours to a reasonable 75hrs. One sick call per two months. The end of the month to the beginning of the next. But that would never happen cause we have a "Do as i say not as i do" attitude.
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